Question about detection and NDI


If NDI is enabled, can Sense detect devices when they are not in use? For example, we just got a new Samsung smart TV. It is only used on weekends, and I was just wondering if Sense can detect it without it actually being turned on/off every day.

Also, Sense just found a “water heater”. Average consumption is 2276 watts and run time is 3 hours, 12 minutes. I’m pretty sure this is not a water heater, because it was discovered a few days ago and has not showed up as on since then, and also because my water heater is gas (and incidentally, the water heater was just replaced a couple of weeks ago when the old one started leaking). So, are the community names suggestions for what else this could be based on the data Sense used to discover the device, or are they just random guesses?


Can’t answer the NDI question as confidently as I’d like. I’d expect Sense to be using a combination of NDI and voltage / current profiles (analog data) to identify them, then to use NDI to support the analog data as the profiles for these devices are nothing like as clean or repeatable as a toaster, washing machine or water heater…

As for the water heater, Sense has found a profile in your data that looks like their model of a water heater, so they use a most-likely naming strategy - you will also see Heat 1, Motor 3 when that’s the closest match you see.

It’s not 100% and the apps are set up to allow you to change the name and identify the device by make & model to help the overall Sense machine learning.

Next step is to look at the Power Meter display for that device or the Usage power meter to figure out what is actually on when Sense is seeing that device active and to rename it.

Perhaps share a zoomed in screen shot of a cycle or two of it on here - the regulars have helped identify a lot of mystery devices for other users.


BTW, has anyone heard when the web app is going to get power meter capability? Trying to see what’s going on in the tiny cellphone screen is difficult at best, and I’d love to be looking at power profiles on my 24” monitor instead.


From what I heard at the webinar yesterday, NDI is nice capability for connected devices with challenging power profiles, but only works well when two things are in place:

  • The device is well behaved in its network protocol when changing power states / joining / living network - some brands or models do this well, other don’t. Many dongle type devices continuously re-register on the network regardless of power state. The device has to cleanly say “I’m on” and “I’m off” via it’s registration and
  • The NDI signaling can be associated with some identifiable unique power on and off events/states.

My take is that if your Samsung meets both criteria, Sense will eventually detect, though it might be slower than a TV turned on/off more regularly, though having the clues from NDI should help. A lot might depend on how noisy the rest of the devices in your house are - TV power might get drown out by other devices.


Hmm, what webinar?

Of the dozen (less than half) of our networking devices found (I’m told) by Sense so far, apparently none of them meet the combination of “well behaved” and “unique power on/off”…the only one which even comes close is the networked laser printer, which was found without NDI at all.

Thanks for the update, though


Sense had this conference (really more of a webinar with chat-in questions) call yesterday for users. They originally only opened to 30 or so users but expanded based on user interest. It was very informative.


Given my feedback thus far, I wouldn’t have invited me. I’m probably in the bottom 10% of their customer experience. One year and perhaps three/four well reported devices. Still, I haven’t dumped it.


Thanks for the explanation of NDI, I suppose the TV will be found eventually. As for the mystery water heater, I would post a graph, but I don’t have one since it hasn’t come on since it was detected early last week. I am very curious though, because the initial stats that were populated says whatever it is has cost 14 dollars this month. And yet, there has been no sign of it since it was found. Really strange. The only other thing I think it could be is my dryer, but that was already discovered and I did laundry yesterday, so that one is out. Oh well, I’ll add it to the bucket of the few things I haven’t figured out what they are yet.


Just an update in case anyone is interested, it turns out my “water heater” is actually the infrared heater on the screened porch! I’ve been hoping that would be detected!


Hey @andy - sorry for my delay in getting back to you about this!

The web team is working on the power meter even as we speak, so we should have something out soon. I feel you on the tiny cellphone screen, and can’t wait for this feature myself.

All the best,




X 2
I would much rather chase around the house with a 7 or 10 inch tablet.
These old eyes just can’t squint far enough on the cellphone.


Dear @dvrablic,
Hi. MachoDrone is curious if the Sense App is too small on the 7 or 10 inch tablet?
Your friend, #MachoDrone
… … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … V heart V


9 inch TAB -S is workable, :wink: but it would be nice if we had larger print overall.
I still have to use a head magnifier to read the white on orange bubbles.
There is a lot of blank space.
Maybe magnify the type when you zoom in on the time line. That would do the job nicely.
Scale up when you spread out the time?
Looking for those impulse type signatures and rapidly changing events.