Disappointed in device discovery


#61

Ok, thats fine. I’m happy to talk to other fellow data scientists. Based on this thread I think it’s clear that i’m not the only user with this (and similar complaints). So hopefully you guys will address this all.


#62

There wasn’t an email. It was posted on the forum, which @kevin1 posted a link to in the post you replied to.


#63

Kevin’s post wasn’t emailed to Andy so he didn’t see it…


#64

Thank you…first I’ve heard of a “forum”. I should find that.


#65

Thank you…I will track down the place I should be monitoring for such things.


#66

Are you primarily accessing the posts here through email? You may want to visit the webpage as it’s easy to miss a lot via the email service.


#67

100% thru email, thanks for the update.

I don’t web much, but will find that


#68

I talked to the DS team leads and they agree that you have some valid points. Definitely watch for the next Conference Call as they said that they just can’t share publicly their answers, but they wanted me to emphasize that ML is being applied in a novel space here and it has created some unique difficulties that have been quite surprising. It’s not the best response, but it’s all we can really offer at this time. Hopefully we’ll do another Conference Call in the next quarter.


#69

Another month has passed so I figured I’d update on my device discovery experience after ‘giving it more time’ Over the last month sense added:

Microwave, but it seems that only about 50% of the time its use is recorded as Microwave vs the dreaded Other. If I put one thing into the microwave to do it’s thing the first item records as the microwave running. If when that finishes, I take it out and put something else in there, the second item records as Other. This pattern seems to be nearly 100% reproducable.
Samsung TV which (as I suspected would be the case) is the only TV in the house not connected to a UPS.
Lightbar in the master bath but since the guest bath upstairs has the same builder fixture, it can’t tell which is on and records them both as the same. I’ll fix that soon with the renovation of the upstairs bath that will remove a duplicate model fixture.
That brings me to a grand total of 5 devices discovered. The other 2 being the water heater and the refrigerator in the garage (but not the main fridge in the kitchen). Not what I was hoping for.

While due to the electrical wiring plan of my house a Single Sense will never see my pool pump or the compressor for my A/C it has also not found any other appliance in the house including main refrigerator in the kitchen, washer/dryer, dishwasher, toaster oven, range, Air Handler for A/C, garage door opener, nor any of the other appliance, lights, electronics etc around the house.

As I type this, my Always on is at 328W and my Other is at 1740W with the A/C and clothes washer running and dishwasher will be added to the Other bucket soon.

So, after waiting another month I continue to be disappointed at the ‘slow’ discovery of devices in my house. As one person living in the house I had hoped that it would be easier for Sense to see things going on and off with far less ‘noise’ of multitudes of things running at once but that doesn’t seem to be the case.


#70

Sorry to hear it, but welcome to the club. There seem to be those (no clue how many, since they mostly don’t post of course) for whom it works, and then the rest of us. After 17 months, I’m at 10 (sort of…but not reliably) out of 114 devices in my all electric home, so I’m definitely in the “rest of us” category.


#71

Why have I never counted my devices at my house? I feel weird now.


#72

I have counted several times but I always miss some. Also there is the counting of devices that fit into Always On vs the rest of the devices. And then there are devices that usage is so small and only periodically used.

Just putting it into perspective of how such monitoring used to be accomplished, prior to Sense, if you had 30 breakers in your panel you would have 30 CT clamps and then you are only monitoring the breaker not the device. Sense has a long way to go, but I am impressed with how far they have come.

For me it is more about usage vs devices. So as long as “other” is considered as a category, I still have my data. Now, I want “other” to be small as possible. When AC and EVSE is not detected it becomes a huge chunk of your usage. IMO, these should be the priority. Everybody’s usage is different, but on my Pareto chart Other, HVAC, EVSE, dryer, fridge, freezer, dehumidifier, well pump, then the rest is my breakdown. My EVSE is still not discovered and according to the support team won’t be for some time. It is over 20% of my usage and a much desired device. Once I get the EVSE my other will fall under 20%.

Here is a question, is there any other device on the market that finds devices vs breakers?


#73

I never did either, till my Sense frustration. It does turn out to be an amazing number, and I almost certainly missed some. Most of them I really don’t care much about, because they are rarely used and/or tiny consumers. My hope remains finding and accurately tracking the big users.


#74

Sense leaves that up to you to scurry around your home and figure out.


#75

well that is one of the most amazing things about the human brain. we suck at doing things like calculations quickly (or at all even). but we excel, in ways that computers can hardly begin to match, at recognizing patterns. Computer scientists have been working for decades trying to figure out how to get computers to accurately recognize faces. and yet we can recognize a face, not just of a person from one day to the next. but of a person 10, 20, 40 years later without having seen them. they could be wearing a different hairstyle, have grown a beard, and it can still be possible to recognize them.

Even NASA is relying on Human Eyes to detect patterns.

so, everyone needs to cut Sense a bit of a break. so far as I know and have been taught, this is still fairly advanced, frontier, technology. Even to government agencies and private corporations with bigger budgets and the smartest people.

@RyanAtSense I stuck up for you, now how about an export feature. I’ve been out of the loop for a bit so I don’t know if it has been released yet. I am forgiving of Sense’s lack of intelligence at recognizing patterns, so I would like to use mine. highlighting parts of the graph and assigning their values to devices for my own calculation purposes. :wink:


#76

Hourly and daily export has been available in the Sense web app for about a month.

Probably not enough resolution for visually identifying anything except high power EV chargers.

Some of the folks on the forum have used the unofficial REST API to poll Sense for power readings so they can get 1 second resolution of so, but that takes a little bit of coding.


#77

I haven’t checked in for a couple months now, so that makes sense.

Thanks! shame about the resolution. I’ll have to check it out. apps like that (or maybe just that one) have been mentioned before, but I’m not a coder :frowning: I’ve tried. I just can’t get into it.

edit: I do not see “export”

edit2: whoops. Web app.


#78

@kevin1

I found it. yeah that’s disappointing. I’ll keep waiting for a real export feature. I wish I knew how to code. but unfortunately, I am at the mercy of the Sense team.

not whining or complaining. I’m sure it will come eventually. and if not, the device has still proven useful.


#79

@Grandpa2390,

I find the export incredibly useful for looking at a few things:

Correlation between Sense Total Usage and Solar Production vs. my utility providers. Both utility providers only supply hourly export as well.

Sense Detection of AC units - My Ecobees supply 5 minute interval data. It’s clear Sense can benefit from Ecobee integration and supervised learning.

Time of Use (TOU) Billing comparisons - helpful to look at how much I would have paid with different billing plans, with and without solar.

But I’m guessing that Sense will eventually include export for minute or second level data for shorter windows of time. I can’t see downloading a year of second-level resolution data.


#80

I don’t have solar or TOU billing. definitely would be useful in those settings.

If I did, the issue would be that Sense doesn’t accurately detect my devices. that’s why I deleted them all. it frequently gets AC and dehumidifier confused and so forth. this would be important for TOU comparison. My dehumidifier runs off and on all day, and in New Orleans, it has to.

The air conditioner on the other hand. with TOU, I would try to run my AC hard at night and let it coast through the morning till noon or so. however long it takes to get from 72 to 83.

Of course, the issue there is that there are too many variables I think to do an accurate comparison in that regard. it is cooler at night, and the sun is down, so AC runs much more efficiently. I would run the AC down to 72 degrees which is something I’d never do during the day. So I probably wouldn’t use it for my AC comparison.

The appliances that do matter (dishwasher, dryer, washer), they don’t detect very well by sense. so I need to be able to export the data by selecting the beginning and end of the time it runs, and then calculating the energy use. it would not be perfectly accurate, but much more accurate than the device detection. if the AC turned on in the middle of a cycle, I could add that period of time as well, and then subtract the two etc.

I don’t have a smart meter (part of the reason I bought the sense). I checked it’s accuracy to my analog meter but… lol. it is vague to read, and I never know what time the meter reader comes around to check.

and for posting my usage online, it just seems much easier and more informative to take a screenshot than post an excel sheet. showing the sum of usage over a period.

I don’t need all of the spikes and everything. I would just like to be able, at this point, to pull total usage at time a, and total usage at time b, c, and d. and I’ll do the graphing myself.average it out. I don’t need to know that at 5:37 it was 10 and at 5:38 it was 10.5… or whatever.
Maybe I can already do this?

I don’t know. given all that. have I misunderstood you, or is the export feature, in its current state, useless to me?

edit: maybe that’s what I need to ask for. a usage meter that shows total usage. just as the power meter shows the power usage at any given time. a Usage meter that is a line graph (rather than a bar graph) just increasing from the beginning of the day to the end, adding up the total usages. or the week. or the month, year, billing period. all of the information is already there. is this feature already there? am I missing it?

if it’s not, why isn’t it? a line graph with a total usage by time line. for longer periods, you can scroll just as you would in the power meter. zoom in and out. just slowly adding up. if I can scroll to 10:05 AM this morning and see 283 kWh, and then scroll to 10:23 and see 283.5 kWh… that would do it for me. I’d be able to work with that. goals and usage have meters… but they aren’t detailed. they aren’t line graphs.