Multiple monitor and 400A support

New User here… New construction home…

Looks like most new construction homes are going to 400 AMP service where I’m at… at least what I’m seeing… I have two panels @ 200AMP each… With a Sense in each panel…

I’m also looking to combine the two units into a single account…

You can combine results today using Sense export and excel. Doesn’t give you all the swoopy visualization, but useful if you want to see full-on totals from Senses.

Thanks Kevin, much appreciated…

I’m going to give that a try.

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Sense team - congratulations on your Series B funding. Now please give us this feature already! If this is indeed the most highly requested feature in the wishlist subforum, can you not put some resources against it to make a bunch of your customers happy?

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I’ll buy another Sense the day this is available.

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To defend Sense a little bit - I think the number one request feature is that the device do what it is advertised to do. Detect devices. While there may not be a single thread in the Product Wishlist forum about that, there are many many individual threads of “how come it doesn’t detect xxxxx”, or “its constantly mis identifies yyyyy”

While not ideal, they have made some improvements to allow people to work around the issue. CT extension to get the clamps to a place that may be above a split in a parallel feed. Data export to be able to look at two units data.

While it makes some people unhappy, I’d be willing to bet that we are talking about 1-2% of users who are affected by the need for 2 sense’s in the same house.

I assume that Sense is looking at their customer base, new round of funding, costs to implement and weighing the priority of this feature. The team has mentioned several times that it is quite tricky to accomplish the merge. In the poll further up in this thread, 41 people have asked for Merged data. 22 people (myself included) have asked for the ability to see two devices separately, but from one account. A few others have a remote solar panel and effectively need a remote solar only unit. In total, 84 voters for 98 votes (you could select multiple options). That isn’t exactly screaming stats to pull resources away from the main product. The 327 “likes” are deceiving as likes counted in the thread can be to a specific persons comment, which in several cases are not necessarily a “like” of the main topic". So there is some double counting going on.

For fun, lets say that to make this happen, they need to devote an engineer to it for a year. I would guess thats in the 70-120k/year range (and thats probably low).
In a years time, they push out this feature. Lets say that the Sense is a 50% margin product. Using the above stab at salary, and leaving out a lot of additional costs, they would need to sell another 450-800 units to make that expense worth it. Are there 450 people who want this function and haven’t purchased a device yet because its a missing feature? Maybe, but there are probably many times that who would buy one of these the second a review comes out that says “its identified 90% of my house in 2 weeks!”.

I’m not trying to put down this idea. I would like to see it happen, but I would rather see my AC or heating units identified, or half of the electronics in my house identified. But whats the point of getting two monitors on one app if the product can’t identify most of the devices in the first place?

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One factor that I don’t see mentioned often around this feature request is the intersection between the Sense target market, which is bounded by people who can afford and will spend $300+ for a device that will track their energy usage (upper middle class +) and the people who have a larger house that requires 400A electric service. Basically everyone that I’d recommend Sense to has multiple electric panels with no place to put a single set of CTs outside of a utility-sealed enclosure. And I can’t recommend an energy monitor that will only measure half of the overall usage or require someone to constantly log out and back in of the app to see “the whole picture”.

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Hey Ben,

I totally agree with your point but I feel the need is much greater than the nerds, including myself, that actually use this forum. They’ve sold more than 99 units so I’m sure if an email went out to their entire client base we’d have a better idea of the real need.

400A panels are the norm around here which means a subpanel in the home.

New user here. Just wanted to add my name to the list of folks with multiple 200A boxes in 1 home and no desire to have the data split in to separate accounts.

Also, just installed this morning and found out my electrician may have OCD…

~Jay

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@JKC wow, that’s a nice install… that’s not an electrician on OCD, that’s an artist… only thing he did wrong is the right main is the wrong color… supposed to be red or black for hots only, to my understanding… but still awesome to see…

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I agree with @HiTechRedNeck. This is a very nice install! He used a little more tape than is required by code to mark service cables, but overall I would give him high marks. Maybe he did not have any red electrical tape left when he marked the second hot. LOL

I see you have 3 CAFI breakers (bedroom circuits?) and two GFCI breakers.

Square D now makes a yellow protective soft plastic covers to protect the main service wire lugs (your black and blue wire connections). You don’t really need it, but if you are going to take the panel cover off and work inside while the mains are still ‘hot’ then it helps to have one more layer of protection. (Especially if you intend to add SENSE CT clamps in that area.)

Blue is commonly used for the Z phase of 3 phase 120/208 service. This panel isn’t fed from 3-phase service, is it?

@Dcdyer Yes sir, the 3 CAFI breakers are indeed bedroom circuits. The house was actually started by a different electrician and he and I didn’t …get along. So, the guy that came in after had to clean up the original guys mess. When he was taping the wires, I actually asked him why he used so much tape on the mains. He told me because he’s got in to many old panels where the tape had come off over the years. I recall him saying “minimum requirements are just that…”

@pswired Nope, not 3 phase just 400a single phase. I renovated a commercial building this past year that this same electrician re-wired and brought up to code including new MC everywhere in the 25k sq ft building. It is a 600A 3 phase with 3 subs and I do recall the blue in there as well.

This brings up a question for me. With my current set up, if I enable NDI and it detects, say a smart TV, but that TV is on a circuit in the panel not currently monitored…is that network detected device just discarded or orphaned in some way in the current account?

Here’s the other panel that I will install Sense in once the multiple account issue gets sorted.

Color coding service wires:

Black - 1st hot (generally on the left connector lug.)
Red - 2nd hot (generally on the right connector lug.)
Blue - 3rd hot

NEC codes do not require the 2nd hot to be color labeled on split phase systems. Only the neutral wire (white) and the ground wire (green). The two service hots must be black on split phase.

It is helpful to have the 2nd ‘hot’ labeled for the next electrician who services the panel. I would find this installation acceptable. Maybe the day your electrician was working he was out of red tape and used blue.

@pswired is correct. On 3-phase connections all three wires must be identified and marked (black, red, blue).

@JKC Where did you end up installing the Sense box? It have a similar built-in panel and have placed it on the wall outside the box (behind a closet door) and still need to figure how I’ll route it’s power lines into the panel. A pic of your setup would be appreciated.

I’ve just got mine temporarily coming out between the panel and cover right now. I’ll mount it to the wall next to the panel after routing the wires through the drywall in to the panel through a knockout.

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Why don’t you install it inside the panel? The wifi antenna should be fine in the wall cavity as long as it’s outside of the panel.

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@pswired I may end up doing that. I just don’t have a lot of room at the bottom of the panel and the existing power leads from sense would need to be extended if I installed it at the top, so I figured I would just mount it on the wall next to the panel. Haven’t completely decided yet, although I would prefer it in the panel…

Here’s how my nephew installed his unit. We used a plastic 3/4-inch strain relief to make the exit hole from the sheetrock look professional. We also used a cable wrap to keep the wires neater. His installation is in his garage. He wanted his monitor outside the breaker panel and accessible.

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@Dcdyer @HiTechRedNeck I got curious about blue vs red and it seems that our local AHD has a requirement superseding the NEC. Below is an excerpt from the local requirements document: