When will 2 sense device work together


#123

It wasn’t until i read all the responses to the survey that I realized my choice in the survey was wrong. I agree with @plutz that a simple summation is what i want. I have two panels, right next to each other, with the second panel having AC and various home extensions on it (outdoor kitchen and other things). Based on simple math its well over half my usage.

I really hope there is a second sensor that you would sell, at a reduced price, that only acts as a continuation for a single account. in this scenario I imagine you can restrict it to the A+B view. if you want to see A and B separate (but also with A+B ability) then buy the full priced sense as the second one.


#124

Well, add me to the list wishing for this. I got my Sense today, and when the electrician opened up our panel, we realized there were actually two different subpanels/breakers served off the main utility box that we can’t access. So Sense is running with one of those for our heavy-load stuff, but I can’t see what’s going on with the light load/electrical outlets. Having to buy a second Sense isn’t that attractive, and the idea of having to log-in-and-out if I do – ugh.

I’ll see how it goes over the next week. Now I’m thinking I should monitor the other breakers – is it an issue if you switch the sensors over? But I wish Sense would come out with some type of approved V-splitter type of thing like the hack described way above.


#125

Did you delete all previous data? (Believe that can be done) or did you just plug and go?
Are the two cts on the left side shown “wired in series” really one from one panel and one from the other panel? When you say “wired in series” do you mean one red wire from one cts tied to red wire from other cts? Same for black? Are you saying left cts from panel 1 is tied in parallel to left cts from panel 2? Does “Facing the opposite direction as panel B” mean the lever that opens the clamp face the opposite direction? (it’s not drawn that way). I will try this as soon as you can answer. Thanks in advance. Dave at dunlavy.us


#126

So it seems that nobody has touched on a basic improvement that might cover a subset of folks use cases:

Can sense just sell an alternate set of CT’s that is rated for up to a 400a service but that plugs into the existing Sense unit?

Some folks will be able to find a way to get a single CT over one set of wires that carry the full load of the house. I believe that the most typical power company deployment is to have a single set of wires into the meter base and then typically off the customer side of the meter base there are two sets of wires in to two 200a main breakers. I think that some power companies may be willing to accommodate placement of the CT’s inside of their locked meter cabinet.

This would be great since it would work with the current Sense software and would only require different CT’s designed for higher amperages. It would also not require two Sense units to be purchased, installed, and maintained.

Granted it would certainly not work for everyone’s needs, but it would work for some without requiring much engineering effort.

To notes above about Sense seeing more demand over time for support of 320/400a services: I am guessing that more of them are being installed in high end homes these days especially in support of electric vehicles. I also suspect that the demographic with these 320/400a panels is very vocal in this community and it matches well with the typical Sense buyers demographic.

I don’t really know how I feel about having to buy two Sense units at $300 to deal with a 320/400a meter. That may be a hard sell for some. Perhaps one option for some installs as well would just be to allow the solar CT’s to be used as a second set of primary CT’s, or to make Sense units with more than two CT ports on them.

This is a hard one since there are so many different types of electrical installations out there in the wild with so many different needs. I hope Sense finds a solution that works both technically and financially!


Installation help; two parallel main panels
#127

N@eric2,

Good points. I actually have a 400A service, but was lucky to have an electrician that would open the meter side of my box to install the CTs on my pre-meter mains, and run the CT leads over to the main breaker side of the box.

The existing CTs were plenty big enough, though the real issue is that if I was running at a full 400A capacity, I would see clipping since the Sense is calibrated for a 200-250A max. I’m sure they could offer CTs with fewer windings that would work to scale with a full 400A, but that would also requires software calibration support. Turns out things are fine for me, even without that because my real usage never gets higher than 160A, even with a couple of EVs charging.


#128

Yup, your posts recently encouraged me to suggest to my friend with this 320/400a service to buy a Sense. The concern I have is that he has a 38,400 watt instant water heater (4x 40a 240v circuits), plus a regular electric water heater (30a @240v), plus two AC units, plus a well pump, plus a NEMA 14-50rEV charging port. So I think he regularly goes over 200a.

So the “concerns” with using a current day Sense unit are:

  1. The CT’s and inputs to the main unit are only rated for 200a.
  2. The utility might not want us in their side of the metering cabinet.
  3. The Sense is not rated for outdoor use (his main panel is outdoors, though inside it is dry of course)

Also, a question for you: How did you route the CT wires from the left side of the cabinet to the right side of the cabinet? Did you drill a hole between the two, or did you run down out of the panel through a knockout and then back up into the other side? What kind of abrasion protection did you use for the CT wires as they went through holes in the panel box?

Thanks!


#129

My electrician drilled and installed one of those 120V cord grommets to prevent abrasion. But the cords don’t really ever move. It sounds like your friend might hit the calibration / clipping limit with his usage, but there’s still not much harm trying, then expanding out into 2 Sense monitors once the software is there.


#130

Thanks!!!

Question: What do you mean by 120v cord grommets? Do you have a picture?


#131

Something like this.


#132

While not ideal, I’d be happy if they could provide a bunch of Excel models that would allow us to download the data from multiple monitors and aggregate it together into one consolidated report to see the detailed (by device) energy use of my house.


#133

We do already have a data export capability in the Web App: What's new in Web App v4. You can get your total usage from the Usage screen or export individual devices from the Devices screen. You could then combine those results into one sheet.

We also have a new Data Analysis subforum that may interest you. Let me know if you’d like to join: New Category: Data Analysis


#134

@don1,
Quick question - what would that report look like ?? You give a good solution for multi-Sense users and there seems to be very little work needed to combine export data from two Senses. The steps to combine would hinge on a few questions about the final result:

  • Do you want the Other, and Always On combined for both boxes or separate ?
  • Do you need all the timestamps sorted in order ? (I ask because some report generation tools like Pivot Tables will automatically re-sort)

There’s a small example in the Data Analysis subforum with how I would do it.
https://community.sense.com/t/combining-results-from-multiple-panels-multiple-senses-into-a-single-report-using-excel/3628

Assumptions / pre-conditions

  • Both boxes are monitored separately (power for the second panel doesn’t flow through the first panels mains)
  • All devices are named by the user to be unique across both panels (Sense can’t guarantee unique IDs across two or more Sense monitors, especially when accounts can’t be linked).

#135

Have been waiting close to a year for ability to see 2 sense monitors on one account.

When will that happen?

Thanks


#136

I have 3 main 200A panels each with their own service disconnect and am very interested in hearing when it will be possible to aggregate multiple sense monitors into a single account.

I currently have one monitor installed, but will need three to monitor my entire home. I’m currently waiting for this capability before purchasing the two additional monitors as I believe they will be of limited use without this functionality.


#137

– As long as the device ID’s are always kept unique that seems to be an obvious end user responsibility. The export reports would also likely need to add a field with the Sense monitor serial number (or naming) so you can quickly and easily separate what is being seen by what monitor.

Once you have consistent data sets coming from each monitor and you can clearly identify which one they came from, merging the data into one consolidated spreadsheet should be pretty simple. While would not give you real time snapshots, it would at least give you the ability to see a monthly consolidated report of a whole house ifs you have multiple points that need to be monitored to gain more value from that monitor(s).


#138

kevin1,

I’m in a similar position as you, with a 400A service that feeds two 200A breakers in my panel, so I was left with the choice of monitoring one half or the other of my total usage. I had the same idea as you to place the CT’s on the main feed from the meter before it splits into two feeds. However, I didn’t feel comfortable ‘breaking in’ to the sealed PG&E portion of the meter, so I contacted PG&E and asked if they would come out and open that part of the cabinet for me so I could install the CT’s. The person I spoke to on the phone seemed perfectly happy to schedule the service call to do exactly this, but when the technician showed up and I described what I wanted to do he advised that it was a code violation to place anything in the meter enclosure (even CT’s) and that if it was discovered the system could be red tagged and shut down. He even called his manager to confirm that there was nothing he could do for me. Now, I totally get that this is purely a scare tactic and nobody is actually going to go around inspecting sealed panels looking for folks that have installed CT’s, but it does beg the question of what would happen from a liabllity standpoint in the unfortunate instance of a malfunction or fire and it was discovered that the homeowner tampered with, and installed ‘illegal items’ in the sealed utility portion of the meter. I’m sure this would give any insurance company all the fodder they needed to make life quite difficult in filing a claim.

Now, I’ve only been using my Sense monitor for a few weeks, and I’m already deeply disappointed (and almost ready to return the thing) that I can’t monitor all my energy usage, but I’m not sure I’m willing to go so far as to expose myself this far from a liability standpoint. I just wish that Sense would finally come up with a way to merge to monitors on one account, or hook up two pairs of CT’s onto one meter.


#139

Thanks John !

If I had started today, I probably would have bought two Senses (one solar and one non-solar) and used export and R to merge at the hourly level. I can see two benefits:

  • Better Sense identification granularity and lower “noise” on each sub.
  • Tighter tracibility of devices on the human side. Easier to figure out what that mystery device is via elimination.

But now I have a fair amount of data history and sunk risk with the existing setup, so I’ll probably wait until Sense has at least single sign-in, in place. I have confidence that Sense will deliver, though it might be a while.


#140

Add my request for multiple Senses support. I have a 400 amp (2x 200 amp load centers) service. Bought and installed one Sense monitor yesterday, but would like to install a second one and monitor them from the same app. At minimum I would like to see summation which I believe is not very hard to achieve in the app.

I also have two questions-

I have access to the main panel with the meter where the service is split. Therefore I can attach the Sense monitor upstream from the meter and thus not need a second Sense monitor. Assuming I draw under 200 amps- does the meter present an unknown and would it potentially screw up the Sense sensing?

Also, my main panel with the meter is about 5 yards from my load centers thus I would need to extend the Sense probes by about that much ( I cannot install the Sense monitor in the meter panel). Would the added length of wire affect Sense or it knows how to compensate for that?

Btw, almost 24 hours later the monitor has not discovered any devices. I imagine it is too early anyway, but just a data point.

Thank you


#141

I did as you are suggesting - installed Sense in the meter panel, and ran CT wires to the nearby sub panel, where the Sense is located. No issues. But my panels were only a few feet apart. Sense support is likely to be able to tell if the unit can still calibrate successful with a 5 yard long set of leads.


#142

Just looked into my main panel- the 400 amp service I receive still comes into the meter as 4 hots and ground. So… no go on installing the sensors there.

But… I had another idea - maybe the folks at Sense can think of a satellite sense monitor - not a complicated one - just two sensors going into a wireless module that all it does is sends data to the main Sense monitor over the wifi. The app would need to have added functionality to pair the satellite to the main monitor, but other than that the rest of the data flow to the Sense mothership should remain unchanged.

… or just provide us with oversized clamps so we can clamp two 6 gauge hots together with a single clamp :wink:

Just another random thought :wink: