My fridge idle is 2W on a Wemo but it’s got an inverter … and it doesn’t idle much.
Average runtime is 2h25m at 45W.
And then there’s the Wemo = 1.5-2W apparently.
Hmmm, how to check? (To be fair I should also plug the Kasa strip into the Wemo but that’s more involved)
OK, seems that it does actually use that much juice so the fridge idle is actually very low.
While we’re on electronics idling: I recently upgraded a Netgear Cable Modem CM500 to a CM700 (from DOCSIS 16x4 680Mbps to 32x8 1.4Gbps max with my service unchanged) and I went from (drum roll please) 9W to 8W on that, thus proving that you can save watts and not lose any bits!
[The modem plus a router, btw, consumes 17W so there’s definitely some room for improvement there]
I should say that inverter fridges, microwaves, plus even garage door openers with DC motors etc. do a better job of standby power sipping. But they are almost alway much harder for Sense to detect as well (without smart plugs that is).
I just replaced both my garage doors. After reading some of you posts about how A/C door openers are detected better than the newer D/C designs, I decided to keep my old openers and rework them to a nearly me condition.
I’m pretty disappointed because Sense still can’t detect them and support does t know why. They use about 580 watts when in motion and are AC motors.
I have found in my home the AO fluctuates from 385-490. My central AC, I leave the fan in circulate mode meaning it will cycle on and off even if the AC or heat is not on. main culprits of my AO:
Cordless phones - I have 8
Slingbox
Alarm system
DirecTV boxes
Eero (3 node wifi mesh system)
FIOS ONT
Nutone intercom system (55 watts)
Sonos - 15 units ( I put several on smart switches HS105)
Security Cam system - 65 watts
Hunter Douglas remote blinds (transformer uses 22 watts)
Assorted networking devices, switches & hubs
Lutron lighted wall switches (not sure what they draw but I have at least 15 of these)
That’s a pretty high-tech house and I don’t think your always on (though with that amount of variation, “always” seems a bit of a misnomer) is that wild. My home (all electric, with a home office computer center) runs 275 to about 290 pretty consistently. “Other” varies all over the map, primarily due to major devices undetected.
I’m pretty much over it all too be honest. I’ve had my sense almost 2 years and it never really identifies correctly. I’ve merged so much stuff that originally found, and then found again. (Yes there all correctly found and merged)
I think my problems with AO are mainly due to our schedules. Always On starts by taking the lowest reading of wattage on the timeline and assumes everything is of except for AO devices. If a device or two that normally cycle, happen to be on, those devices just got included.
Having the smart plugs is where I’m getting some help in this area but I’m going to need to figure out a way to get all of my Always On devices onto smart plugs. That won’t guarantee a fix as it will still be using that lowest reading and other devices could be on at the time.
Yeah this is my problem with Always On but I am not relishing spending hundreds of dollars on tons of smart plugs for all my devices either. I have a lot of always on devices and at $20 per device it’s going to be quite costly to put a smart plug on them all. Much more than sense was. And while I’m still new to Sense I’ve been instructed to delete my bigger devices because they are inaccurate. I still have a dryer but it’s not always accurate either and I’m sure support is going to have me delete that soon. So I’ll be down to a fridge, microwave and garage door opener and one HS110 smart plug that I use for my instant hot water. But I can’t afford tens of HS110s or HS300s to plug everything into (not to mention they draw more watts themselves).
Guys, I really don’t think this is the best thread for feedback on how Always On works. Two people are posting in here trying to get help with IDing what devices in their home are always on. Let’s please keep this thread focused on that. If you have feedback on improving Always On, I’d suggest posting in Product Wishlist. If you do that, I’ll port over the relevant posts here.
Ok, I’m a newbie to Sense, I’ve been up and running 2 1/2 months. I guess my question is what is “Normal” for AO. I see alot of post with 200 - 600W of AQ.
In my case I have been pretty consistant at 1950W AO. Sense tells me I’m 91% higher than all other Sense Users. WOW, that hit me hard.
So one of the things I run is a Website with 3 Synology NAS units of various sizes all of which plugs into a UPS. I would think the UPS hides all of these servers and storage devices from Sense, can anyone confirm this?
The other question is how folks have identified their Sonos devices? I have 10+ devices which have music playing 18 hrs a day, but Sonos has no idea they are there. Do I need to go the HS110 route to help or once unplugged will this knowledge be lost?
Last is there any hope that Sense will figure out my 2 freezers in the basement, it has found my 2 refridgerators, but as mentioned by many others, there does not seem to be any real method as to when and how devices are found.
Looking for suggestions to help Sense learn if that is possible.
Wow is right, that’s a high AO.
I don’t feel as bad now.
Using the HS110’s will give you the detection only as long as your using that particular plug for that device. Once you remove it, that active detection is lost and won’t transfer into a native Sense detection.
You fridges will likely be detected in time. I’ve had a fridge and freezer detected since early on but added another fridge about 6 weeks ago. This new fridge has not yet been detected but Sense usually does really well with compressors.
It can depend on the technology used as people with inverter driven compressors state they never get a detection. My mine fridge has this style and was detected without a problem.
@jschindler, that’s an interesting question about the AO assessment for a UPS load and I am actively assembling my thoughts on this topic for elsewhere.
Questions:
What type of UPS are you using? Is it “online” or “offline”.
Do you have smart plugs on any of the servers (Synology/UPS)
@jschindler Personally I would put the freezers on individual HS110s sooner rather than later (not Wemos, they don’t startup to ON after a power failure). You’ll get fine-grained usage info that also serves to accelerate Sense learning (for everybody), you’ll be reassured that the device power meter for the freezers is showing actual usage, and you can detect when there may be an issue with the freezer (no power!) more quickly.
If you haven’t installed any smart plugs yet, a fridge/freezer is a good place to start because the power signature is interesting to look at and will no-doubt bring you back to the Community to contribute!
In the meantime you can take a look at a Sonos signature before you install the HS110 on the freezer … having a power signature will help you assess how much of the AO is actually coming from those.
I am running a CyberPower UPS. 2700W. Model number OL3000RTXL2U. I currently have no smartplugs anywhere in my home, though it looks like I need to start investing in a couple.
As for what is connected to the UPS, there are 3 Synologies NAS units. They very in size. In total I’m spinning 44 drives across the 3 units, with 170TB of usable RAID 5 storage. This is a mix of 2TB, 6TB and 8TB disk drives. I also have a NVR plugged in for my security camera’s.
My Servers are on a separate UPS, not as big, it is a CyberPower 1540W Model number OR2200PFCRT2U. My home has a 20KW Generator so the UPS’s need only to hold service for 10-15sec for the Generator to switch over.
No, I don’t believe Sense will “find” servers behind a UPS for two reasons. Some UPSes will obscure the signatures of the devices on the protected side. But even if if you had them plugged in directly, servers, like many electronics don’t really have a definitive on-signature, plus any regular patterns that they might have (booting) are hidden behind an energy-use-flattening power supply. I would suggest an HS110 or HS300 - you’ll get a better picture of your server usage.
I have put my 2 Sonos units on an HS300, because, being electronics, they are also unlikely to be detected by Sense. My discovery from that is that they use far more power in standby than I would expect - 7W each. So I have used my HS300 to power them down most of the time.
Great computer center. I’ve seen no sign that Sense can detect anything connected to UPS’s, but have read that it depends on the specific UPS technology. If your smart plugs are after the UPS then Sense should be able to read those individually. If before the UPS, then Sense will see one device which is the combination of the loads attached to the UPS and the UPS own power consumption.
@kevin1 & @andy’s responses here should enlighten you to the issues of detection before/after a UPS and their suggestions are what I would recommend. I will add something on the analysis side and related to Always On:
Generally speaking for electronics the lower the peak power of the device (watts) and the more constant the power use is, the harder to detect it’s going to be.
Inversely, the higher the power, and the more variable, the easier.
Behind a UPS, even with a pure-sinewave one like what you have, the overall power usage demand still “gets through” but it’s smoothed and much of the Sense-readable frequency clues are cleaned from the signal. e.g. Sense might be able to detect when you go from 44 drives (!) to 43 … sounds like an Alert situation to me!, but it would struggle with detecting any variation in more activity on a particular drive (I haven’t done the math, but you get the idea). Sounds like you have at least a 16-drive Synology which maybe has an 800W supply so this starts to get into the realm (I believe) where you might detect some usable variation but it’s not going to aid with device detection for now. As more people with similar systems (!?!) AND Sense come on-line, there is potential for those kind of macro changes to be an indicator of a particular device. But this is stretching the limit.
What is interesting to consider here though is what this means for the Always On calculation. This and other considerations will be taken up in a Data Analysis topic.
