I had a 3 ton and a 4 ton replacement done for less than 10K$ here in the expensive part of CA. 14-16 Seer Bryant single stage units. The installer was a friend of a friend so maybe I got friends and family rate, but still…
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I’m in Florida too, Orlando area. I have single pane too. Seems to be the norm here except for the brand new stuff. I had my windows filmed some years ago and that was a big help.
My current unit just turned 10 years old. I’ll probably get a XV20i next. Family owned HVAC company has it perks…
Yet another area where contractors really gouge homeowners.
When I decided to do geothermal for my new home, I got quotes ranging $27,000 to $98,000, all for pretty much the same system. I was also told that ”geothermal heat pumps are much more complex than regular heat pumps” and “geothermal systems are so complicated that they almost require a PhD to design and install”. ABSOLUTE NONSENSE! It’s a simple refrigeration unit and a bit of plumbing….plus the well of course.
So, I found a dealer who would sell me a 5 ton Climate Master water to water heat pump, took a couple day course at the local distributor, and other than drilling the well (which I needed for domestic water anyway), I pretty much did the installation myself, including radiant heating and the controls and plumbing for later mini-duct A/C…all for about $8,000. $98,000 indeed! Yikes.
The systems have been great, and we really appreciate the central A/C during hot humid summer months, for zero operating cost/mo between the geothermal efficiency and our solar.
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The line set isn’t what comes charhed. The system (condenser/compressor) comes precharged. I’ve never seen the option for anything other than the factory charge with a traditional split system, which is almost always 25 feet and occasionally 30.
The only systems where charged. line sets are used is for mini split systems with proprietary couplers and even those are very far and few between.
I don’t believe they could fit a charge for a 3 ton system in a line set. The only way they are able to with the outdoor heat pump condenser is by using the compressor, it’s liquid when compressed.
My idiot contractor put in double pane windows in 2009, and completely ignored my detailed specs (I’d done a LOT of homework) about flashing and caulking. When I had my blower door test run for Energy Star, virtually every window leaked around the frame, despite being good quality windows. So, I brought in an insulation expert and his team, and they fixed literally hundreds of gaps.
Also found that the contractor had ignored caulking the sills, although he did use those silly foam “sill seals”…winds blew right thru. The same insulation expert had his team caulk and foam every sill. Now the house is really really tight, and our heating costs dropped dramatically. Of course, with a house that tight you also need an ERV.
Studies have shown that air infiltration is a huge component of home energy loss. Sealing it tight is worth every hour/dollar. This was all “pre-Sense, but I have graphs from my welserver system showing dramatic drop.
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Yup, I easily found those for my folks summer place, where I installed a mini-split, a few hours of simple work vs a $2,000 bid from a contractor. Wish I made that much all the time!
When my were installed they also didn’t flap inwards on the barrier or caulk sills. Without removing the siding and the windows, it is now impossible for me to get it right. But, caulking everything from the inside to just stop the movement of air was enough to make a difference on my bill.
Homes all over the country had single pane until recent years. BTW, while you don’t have the heating losses we do up her in NH, we found that double pane also helps a LOT during cooling season…and not a drop of condensation despite some really humid days.
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Ah, interesting. What I installed was indeed a Fujitsu single zone mini-split…learn something every day.
I did have someone come and re-charge (it had leaked) a conventional A/C a handful of years ago, and as I recall it only cost a couple of hundred $, including travel time. My bigger challenge with a conventional system would be the ducting, I don’t do that at all well.
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Same problem here, and that’s exactly the fix I had to do. I think they used “low expansion foam caulking” between the window frames and the framing. That only took removing the trim and cutting small holes in the wallboard (and often not even needed, due to sheet rock gaps).
It’s actually a job that many home owners could do, I just had the same guys that did the blower door and heat cameras do it while they were here anyway….a couple of hours for the team, vs days and days for me.
We both saw significant improvement from reducing infiltration, and I’d strongly recommend that for many/most homes…even brand new, supposedly sealed, construction. A simple air infiltration test quickly tells you whether you have the problem. Many (most?) builders are really really sloppy.
Agree, double pane windows here are a big help with condensation.
This thread went in a totally different direction, but I think there was an interesting statement in the first sentence of the initial post. Why would a residential AC system run 24/7? Is it bringing in fresh air from outside? Even that can be done with intermittent fan use.
Residential HVAC systems do not bring in air from outside unless they are improperly designed and installed or extremely faulty.
The only exception would be a room window air unit.
Hi Dan,
That is a pretty broad statement, and of course depends on your definitions of what parts of your system are HVAC. At least in the north east, fresh air intake is becoming much more frequent for new homes and you see HRV’s and ERV’s popping up more and more. Several states (MA for one) have laws in place that require fresh air exchange. It doesn’t necessarily have to be from a dedicated intake system, but to say that HVAC systems do not bring in outside air is a false statement.
That said, I agree that a system running 24/7 doesn’t make sense unless they are talking specifically about the air handler fans only.
I thought the fresh air I take only applies when running a heat mode where carbon monoxide from fossil fuels are an issue.
When in a cooling mode, it would not be required.
I could be completely wrong and have misunderstood reading about it.
Both my kids moved out this month. Fro their entire upbringing there was much more air exchange happening than I wanted with their in and out the doors.
Great to hear from you Ben and appreciate the correction and education
Modern properly designed and built houses leak far less air than they used to, bringing the air quality to way below safe levels. So, introducing fresh air is critical for good health. While you could simply bring an outside air duct into a forced air system, that would be very very wasteful. The right thing to do is to install an Energy Recovery Ventilator (ERV) system, which exchanges stale air for fresh air and transfers both heat and moisture between the home and the incoming air. In the winter, that warms and moisturizes the cold air and in the summer it cools and dehumidifies it. On a bitter cold day, our ERV warms the incoming air up to around 60 degrees, preserving lots of expensive heat.
Many ERV installations do feed the home HVAC ducting, if that’s present, for distribution. Ours does and runs both the ERV and the mini-duct (on low) fans for 15 minutes each hour, year round. Unfortunately, Sense hasn’t detected that.
All that’s completely independent of requirements for combustion air, but of course furnaces, flame hot water heaters, wood stoves/fireplaces, etc each require additional air to be introduced. When done properly, those all involve ducting fresh air directly to the point of flame.
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Using Sense smartplug awareness and IFTTT I’ve cobbled together some indoor/outdoor fan control: When my kitchen hood (which vents directly outside) activates, an indoor room-to-room fan is switched off along with a direct-vent bathroom fan. That said, controlled fresh air input is a nightmare.
I’m using a Sensibo transmitter for a window AC unit which helps with coordinating air flow inside but like all window AC units mine has a manual “outdoor air” port which really does nothing in terms of controlling outdoor air input.
Something that is a mystery to me (in these days of energy conservation) is the lack of straightforward multi-vent control and HRV/ERV integration with proper HEPA filtration. I live in a small apartment in a generally dusty city surrounded by often-nasty restaurant vents so pulling fresh air from one location is next to impossible.
I posted this here before … don’t read if you like toast!
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I have a z-wave dry contact module controlling my ERV through SmartThings. The controls are mainly for humidity, so that the ERV isn’t sucking in a ton of moisture in the shoulder seasons when the HVAC isn’t running to take it back out. But they also shut down the ERV when the house has been unoccupied for 12 hours, so I’m not doing air changes while I’m traveling.
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