Other still high - year later

[deputypaulatl]

Had sense a year now…

What still concerns/bugs/bothers me: Other still high (in addition to always on). Certain things just don’t detect: Ceiling Fans and Can lights.

Other is still very high. I have a screen shot but not sure how to upload it.

Overall I like sense. It has taught me alot about my home and I have since changed some (bad) habits. But a year now and many things not detected? Whats up with that?

[kevin1]

You should be able to go back and edit your post using the “pencil” icon below your posting. You might need to tap on the “dots” icon to expand out your options first.

Once in edit mode, your can use the “upload arrow” to add a screenshot or two to your posting, and add more text if needed.

[deputypaulatl]

Thanks… Done

Yeah I know AC was running. But without AC other is still high (will post new screen shot)

[kevin1]

There are really three questions that might affect detection given the types of devices you are talking about (ceiling fans, lighting cans):

1. Are the devices showing crisp on and off “signatures” that Sense relies on to do detections ? Some can lights (LEDs with energy storage) plus DC ceiling fans don’t have clear on and off signatures due to the electronics inside. One way to partially test this might be to turn on your main Power Meter, then try toggling a bunch of the devices you want detected, at a slow rate. See if those toggles show up as tagged on and off “events” on the power meter (see example below). If you see a tag for each on and off toggle, that gives you some degree of confidence that Sense is seeing the device turn on on and off. If not, then the electronics are probably hiding detectable on and off signatures from Sense.

2. If Sense is tagging both on and off toggles, but hasn’t detected the device, then Sense is probably still learning. It needs to be able to consistently see the 17 (or more) dimensional characteristics for those ons and offs fall into a tight “cluster”, plus for that cluster to be unique (no other devices clusters overlapping).

3. There’s also a chance that there are so many tagged on an off events, especially at the lower power levels, that there really aren’t nice cleanly delineated clusters, just bunch of blobs smeared together. In that case, your house might be just too noisy for further detections.

Try number 1) and see what you see over the course of 10 to 15 min toggling a few of the devices you are hoping to see detected.

[lholland]

OK buster, how do you know all this stuff about how Sense works?! :))

You have access to some kind of white paper I don’t know about? I’d love to read it…

Regardless, thanks for the consistent and enlightening posts.

[kevin1]

Thanks @lholland,
I’ve picked up most of my knowledge about Sense from:

1. Sense technical blogs - Technology Archives - Sense Blog

2. This interview with Mike Phillips that touches on machine learning techniques
   Tracking your EV, solar, and energy use with machine learning - Sense smart home interview - YouTube

3. This webinar that gives some insight into the clustering for machine learning
   Sense Webinar - August 2018 - YouTube

Add in some educated guesses and a little knowledge of machine learning…

[deputypaulatl]

I did briefly try this with one of my ceiling fans. Sense did spike about 38w. So is that enough to detect?

Also my dishwasher, that had a significant spike (158w). So why isn’t sense detecting that?

I’m still a year later not completely sold on Sense.

[kevin1]

@deputypaulatl, assuming that you are responding to my suggestions and that Sense actually tagged those “spikes” you mention ? You didn’t post a screenshot, but tagged means Sense put a little numeric label associated with the power increase or decrease.

Second question - are you also seeing commensurate tagged down-spikes associated with those devices turning off ? I don’t thing Sense will detect a device based on “spotting” just the on or the off. It needs to recognize/tag both.

If it is tagging both the on and the off for a device, but not detecting it yet, there might be variety of reasons:

• It hasn’t seen enough transitions of that type to definitively cluster them.
• They ons and offs aren’t unique enough to classify as a unique device.

Both of these reasons require you to have some understanding of multi dimensional clustering and things like KNN algorithms.

Would be interesting to see a screenshot of the app Power Meter with a single on off toggle of your ceiling fan to see what they look like . Most ceiling fans today are electronically controlled via a DC motor so they don’t really look like motors from their on and and off signatures - more like general electronics.

[brian5]

My main ceiling fan uses a modem Lustron dimmer for both the lights and fan itself, so because they both fade off, I hold out no hope Sense will find it. I personally don’t need sense to find every bulb in my house. If it has the big ticket items, I’m happy. If you’re expecting it to find your fridge light or bedside lamp, you might have unreal expectations, especially as those become low wattage LEDs.

[deputypaulatl]

Brian

Of course i’m not expecting it to find everything nor small things. But a dishwasher is a main appliance. I would think ceiling fans would be detected too as they use a motor and they are in every room in my house constantly on and off and also not on dimmer switches.

[brian5]

The hard on and off like Kevin mentioned is key. If you see those on the power meter, then Sense is a lot more likely to be able to detect it. As I’ve said in other posts, I had two, large lights in my office. One was a bank of six florescent lights that totaled almost 200w. Sense detected those, but since they were big draws, all difference color temperatures, and hummed, I removed the ballasts from those and converted them to LEDs that now use 96w total. Sense hasn’t found those yet, and while they’re non-dimmed, I’m guessing it won’t. I have another fixture that is a 200w halogen, I think, and that too was detected. I have yet to replace that fixture, but will because 200w for just one light is a lot when there’s LEDs now that use a fraction of that power for the same output.

I am hopeful for your fans, I just know that none of mine will be detected because mine ramp up and down.

[kevin1]

Did you get a chance to do the toggling experiment in the main Power Meter ?
Were the power upticks you mentioned, tagged ? I did another example below. The 200W up and down tick in blue was the lone remaining outdoor halogens outside our house. Sense probably hasn’t found since they are used so infrequently. The two yellow circles are the spin-up and spin down of a ceiling fan. The electronic control hides any real on or off signature.