Very few new devices identified in months

Been using Sense for years. Added a second panel which was detected, but only a very few items detected. Only 19 devices detected total. Only well pump was detected from new box. I have many large power used not detected. Very discouraged. Should I start over or just forget I ever tried to use this.

What do you mean, added a second panel ? Do you have a 2x200A kind of setup with your Sense now ?

I have a 200@ main panel and a smaller box. The smaller box has the well pump that has been detected.

Thank you for any help you might provide.

Cheers,

Dave

<img width=“627” height=“470” style=“width:6.5312in;height:4.8958in” id=“Picture_x0020_2” src="//discourse-cloud-file-uploads.s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/business6/uploads/sense/original/2X/9/9333d715882ceff60450dd18caa9c625c0361799.jpeg" alt="A picture containing electronics

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Hey @dave4 - if you could share photos of both of your panels, along with photos that illustrate your current Sense configuration that would be a huge help.

Hi Justin,

Not sure why my photos didn’t show up in my previous reply.

Here is a picture of both panels and sense box.

Please let me know if you need more information.

Thank you for your help in advance.

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Attached is a list of my devices in xslx & pdf formats.
Just verified items now.
Please let me know if this helps and if you have further questions.
Plan view of Office/Shop building, FYI.[https://dunlavy.us/sense/Electrical Devices Shop Building.pdf](https://dunlavy.us/sense/Electrical Devices Shop Building.pdf)

[https://dunlavy.us/sense/Electrical Devices Shop Building.xlsx](https://dunlavy.us/sense/Electrical Devices Shop Building.xlsx)

[https://dunlavy.us/sense/Shop Building Floor Plan.jpg](https://dunlavy.us/sense/Shop Building Floor Plan.jpg)

Try again!
(https://dunlavy.us/sense/ElectricalDevicesShopBuilding.pdf)

(https://dunlavy.us/sense/ElectricalDevicesShopBuilding.xlsx)

[https://dunlavy.us/sense/ShopBuildingFloorPlan.jpg]

(https://dunlavy.us/sense/ShopBuildingFloorPlan.jpg)

Hey @dave4 - thanks for resending the files. The data here is not super helpful - Support would be a better route here (support@sense.com), as they can request to access your monitor data and gauge their recommendation on what they are seeing in the back-end (which is a much higher resolution than what we’re seeing here.)

A couple more questions for you:

• How long ago did you add your second panel?

• Did you do a data reset after you added your second panel and set-up Sense with 400A split-service?

Off first glance, I’m not seeing anything obvious from your photo regarding installation that would cause an issue. There are several users with 400A split-service that may catch something I’m missing.

@dave4
Can you clairy your set up a bit?
What do you think the Solar (Flex) clamps on the little panel should be doing?
How is that little side panel fed? I see the leads coming in from the back, but it doesn’t look like those terminate in the main panel anywhere.
Justin mentioned split service, but you have a main breaker in that panel which at least where I come from, eludes to it not being a split service.

One other thing to note - the position of the CT’s seems to matter. Since it looks like your panel is usually left wide open, you may want to think about trying to clean up / and dress the Sense cables so that they can’t be josseled if you are doing other work in the panel.

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To: @dave4

I am going to ask the same questions that @ben asked in an earlier reply.

  1. Where do the incoming wires to the panel on the left come from? They don’t appear to terminate in the main breaker panel.

Comments:

  1. It appears that you are not re-installing the metal panel covers. That is against NEC code. If a breaker ‘arcs’, then you want the problem to be contained in a fully enclosed metal panel. If you have a house fire, then the fire chief may cite this and your insurance company will not be happy. When you leave the panel covers off, then you are allowing dust to build-up and contaminate the inside of the breakers. They may not trip when you need them to.
  2. I would add support to the SENSE wires with additional brackets. You are adding additional strain to the connection points at the orange monitor. Run the SENSE wires thru a ‘knock-out’ on the side of the panel.
  3. Any white wires that are used for carrying voltage (directly connected to a breaker and used as a ‘hot’) need to be identified in the breaker panel with a piece of black (or red) electrical tape. NEC Code. You have used a white wire on breakers 21, 26, 27 and maybe 8. I can’t tell from the picture if it terminates on the neutral bar or directly to a breaker.
  4. Same comment as Ben: You need to make certain that the CT clamps can not be bumped or moved. Last July, I accidentally changed the position on my CT clamps while working in my panel and lost my detection on several devices. Use some foam spacers and tape the ends of the CT’s closed.
  5. Suggestion: Add a ‘whole house surge protector’ in your left panel. You have the space.
  6. I do not see any Arc Fault breakers or GFCI breakers. NEC 2020 code now requires AFCI breakers on all inside house circuits. Your house may be grandfathered… due to the date it was built. Something to think about for the future.

My first glance at the picture… It appears your main panel is on the right with a sub-panel on the left supplied by the main. If the left is a sub-panel, then you don’t need to meter it with SENSE CT clamps.

Good job on documenting all the electric points/‘uses’ in your house/shop. Add the breaker circuit number to your spreadsheet, then add up the wattages used on each individual circuit.

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Thank you a ton for chiming in here @Dcdyer - the variations in electrical panel configurations can be overwhelming. My wild guess here was that a subpanel (on the left) was feeding in the main panel (on the right). Appreciate your knowledgable take on this, as always.

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Sorry, I thought several pictures & description of system was already available. Sense Dunlavy Iinstallation Please let me know if you have any questions. - - - - -
After seeing this post, I noticed link (Sense Dunlavy Installation) has no way of knowing you are supposed to click on that link… Thank you

Hi Dcdyer, Thanks for responding to my problem. 1. System is open for mock-up. Covers will be installed when done. 2 good suggestion. will tidy up when finished. 3. Noted. Will certainly comply when system is cleaned up. 4 Good Suggestion. 5. Found whole house protectors are outlawed in my area. 6. Yes, the buildings are 21 years old and agree with your comment. I appreciate your time to help me.

Would you please provide a link to the rule that states “Whole House Surge Protectors are outlawed in my area”.

The 2020 NEC code requires a whole house surge protector be installed on all new residential builds. See the link below:
2020 NEC Code Change | Surge Protection Now Required (kbelectricpa.com)

Some good choices for a surge protector can be found at this site:
THE BEST Whole House Surge Protector [as of Feb. 2021] (ipropertymanagement.com)

Wow, great job with documentation here and thank you for sharing the link again.

It appears that you have a pretty non-traditional installation here (at least in my limited experience), since the power from the small panel seems to be coming straight from the house (connected to the generator back-up), while the power from the main panel is coming straight from the meter.

Right now, I’m unsure of if the lack of new devices is related to the installation OR possibly the type of devices you’re using in your shop. Outside of a well pump, are there a lot of common household devices in your “Shop” and “Office” or are they all shop tools?

Support@sense.com might be a good option here, unless someone with a similar set-up here has any feedback. I have some ideas but would rather hold off suggesting to let someone more familiar with your specific arrangement.

Hi Dcdyer,

My utility company, TriCounty Coop, told me since I have a 20+ year old home/shop, they would not provide a whole house protector. Something about retrofit program, they could not or would not do it.

I should have not used the term outlawed.

Appreciate your help.

Cheers,

Dave Dunlavy

Hi Justin,

I just posted a detailed inventory of everything in the shop building (which includes the Office). Each room is listed with items. I believe you will be able to see there are many things on the small panel besides the well pump and microwave.

Because sense has detected the well pump and microwave, I am quite sure the sense pickups are connected correctly. Sense has the information to detect all the major users of power in both boxes. I am not expecting sense to detect the small devices like Battery Tenders – TV sets – Alexa – some circuits with a few led bulbs. But I would think some devices should be detected like Office Furnace, Air Conditioning, Coffee pot, Vertical Mill (a 5hp 3 phase motor running on 240 single phase) MIG welder (115vac). There are 3 ceiling lights in the Shop with the same bulbs. Sense has detected one correctly and detected the other two. They are Shop Ceiling Lights North, Middle & South.

Hopes this explains my setup.

Here is a link to Sense on my website.

https://dunlavy.us/sense/sense.html

You will find xlsx spreadsheet and pdf of postings on that page.

Please ask for anything more to help solve this lack of detections.

Thank you for any help you can provide.

Cheers,

Dave Dunlavy

Hello all. I’ve had Sense about 5 months now with good results on device detection the first 2 months.15 devices were detected. Haven’t had any devices detected in the last 3 months. Wonder if that is all I can expect or just need more time. Or is my Sense stuck.
Thanks
Hal

I don’t think Sense is stuck, but it is probably through all the low hanging fruit. But you will likely continue to see new ones trickle out as:

  • Some seasonal and/or relatively infrequently transitioning device accumulate enough transitions for Sense to make a call.
  • Sense creates new models and dials or reformulates existing ones
  • Sense builds out more specialized model for devices that don’t fit the “standard” simple on/off transition type detection (i.e EV charging, heat pumps and mini splits)
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