What's new in v23 and Web App v5.5: Smarts Plugs and Themes


#61

It will not. The Sense integration only works with the Wemo Insight, or the TPLink Kasa HS110
Both of these models have power monitoring features which the Sense is able to collect and report in the app. The Mini plug you purchased is just an on /off without power monitoring.

I will say I like the Wemo Mini plugs for general control as their size format works nicely in the switches without blocking the second outlet. But as far as Sense Integration goes, they won’t talk to each other. Or at least as of now they do not. Maybe Sense will find a way to use the On/Off signals to further detection later on down the road, but they have said that it would be difficult to line up the timing.


#62

Just so I’m understanding correctly, can you explain the order of events a bit more?

You set up the smart plug on Saturday and added your fridge to it and then the historical wattage of your fridge, prior to Saturday, doubled?

As for the furnace, is your furnace somehow on a smart plug? I’m a bit confused on that one in particular.


#63

@RyanAtSense No problem. I reset my sense all together, I wanted to see how the smartplugs affected the device detection. I export all my trends I into splunk so I didn’t really mind the loss of historical.

  1. friday afternoon: reset sense
  2. friday evening: configured smart plugs (one on the fridge and yes one on the furnace).
  3. Saturday: sense identified fridge and furnace after the smart plugs were already added.
  4. I then added the newly detected devices to “what’s plugged in” for the plug.
  5. plug wattage for time prior to the merge doubled when the detection model trips, when it isn’t doubled I suspect is the gap between the plug and the detection model.

#64

Ah, ok. I understand. That does sound like odd behavior. Would you mind submitting a ticket to support@sense.com about it?

I should also add that smart plugs have no effect on ML-based device detection at this time. Right now, we’re collecting the ground truth data to improve detection models in time, but they offer no immediate benefit to the device detection process. This is discussed in a bit more detail over at our blog: https://blog.sense.com/smart-plug-integration


#65

Sure. No problem.


#66

Yup, I think Sense “predicts” on and off events somewhat separately from steady state usage. This blog gives a hint of how it is done, at least for devices that have short on-signatures.

https://blog.sense.com/articles/how-does-sense-detect-my-devices/

That’s why we see situations where Sense spots an on-event, but misses an off-event, leaving a device bubble on the display that has clearly turned off in the household (the bubble stays on until a watchdog timer turns it off).

I’m guessing that the two features that play the biggest role in identification and classification of the examples given are quick changes in current and phase angle. But that’s all in the context of AC voltage and current waveforms which are continuously varying at 60Hz (or 50Hz elsewhere). Sense has smart digital signal processing guys that have figured out the best way to extract these changes from AC waveforms (preconditioning), then feed them to the AI “magic box”.

I think you are thinking about AI the right way - a magic black box. You just have to think of everything Sense identifies as merely a high-percentage “prediction”. If you have the data to confirm (or deny) those predictions (like via a smartplug), Sense will improve it’s predictions for that device, the next time it goes through training. To be clear, Sense is still in data collection and experimenting mode with smartplug data, as @RyanAtSense states above, so don’t expect any improved magic yet.

Prediction kind of looks like this, except imagine inputs multi-dimensional in current, phase, others, and time.


#67

I’m curious…it’s been 24 hours since I activated WEMO devices with no detection. Any ideas?

image


#68

I don’t see any insight plugs,. Only the minis, which do not offer wattage so I believe sense will not pick them up.


#69

Ok, that’s news! What about the wall switches…they aren’t all minis. I thought this was all about knowing when something came on/off (detection) and Sense would monitor current draw via standard practice?


#70

Everything I saw only referenced the specific models of the tpLink hs-110 and the wemo insight smart plugs. The on/off doesn’t give them a lot of data fromwhat they said, they need the constant energy readings to correlate it.


#71

The only devices that will interface with Sense are indeed current-measuring smart switches like the Belkin Wemo or the TP-Link HS110.

If you purchase an Insight and add it to your Belkin app Sense will pick it up in short order.

I am also a Wemo user but increasingly I have TP-Link hardware being mixed in simply because of the fact it’s less expensive, and in the case of the HS110 vs Insight argument, I prefer the HS110 since it defaults to on after a power interruption - the Insight defaults to off, which depending on what you’re using it for (IE, refrigerator), could be a big issue.


#72

Well this obviously doesn’t help me one bit. It makes no sense actually. The sense is the current meter. The whole point of the integration is to be aware of a device coming on/going off. I’m incredulous at this WEMO implementation.


#73

@mstraka606,
Right now, capturing the full power information of a device at the socket (ground truth), concurrent with Sense’s measurements is much more valuable in two ways, than simple on/off status:

  1. You get the full power profile of the device on the smartplug/bridge so it can be immediately included in Sense’s accounting for the household.

  2. The full power profile (ground truth) for the device is also much more effective for training machine learning how to identify devices.


#74

I’m not saying it isn’t better but if you take that logic position then the solution is a monitor at each devise and we don’t need ANY Sense box. It’s backwards logic IMO


#75

In fact I agree that sensing at the device is preferable. I frankly can’t wait until it becomes industry standard ($5-7 built into each refrigerator, washer, dishwasher, AC would be great). At that point Sense is worthless.


#76

You’re right. But the way I look at it, it’s better for people who are impatiently waiting for Sense to be able to find their remaining devices in two ways:

  1. They get results today, in the very cool whole-house Sense environment, at relatively low cost (NewEgg had a deal last week for 2 HS110s for $22 - that’s only a few bucks more than your $5-7 price point)

  2. Sense is able to better dial in on the devices that Sense hasn’t found yet in the household because there is ground truth data available for them.

I agree that big expensive appliances and electronics should have power consumption instrumentation and communication built in, but even in that eventuality, a system like Sense, that is monitoring the house as a whole, has value for two reasons:

  1. Consolidation and accounting - you are likely to need some kind IoT power data consolidation and accounting platform. And the platform is likely to need to be neutral (not in the appliance biz) since 7 different standards will probably appear, one from each major supplier.

  2. Legacy - People won’t replace appliances for that one minor feature. Every house will have tons of legacy devices that will still need Sense-style identification for a long time to come.


#77

Considering many manufacturers can’t even agree that the earth is round, getting them to co-operate on a new presumably universal communications standard for information/consumption sharing is probably a long, LONG way off…barring unlikely government standardization regulations and requirements.

I agree it would be a great thing, but it’s also highly unlikely. And if it does happen in the short term it’ll almost certainly be brand proprietary…so unless you buy every single electrical appliance and device from a single manufacturer (unrealistic) you’re still going to either end up with unmonitored devices, or fragmented data.

I think we’re probably 20+ years out from any sort of monitoring standard.


#78

@MachoDrone, @mstraka606,
Oddly, there actually is a standard for energy management that is baked into some appliances to make them Smartgrid-ready: ANSI/CEA2045 and the USNAP alliance.

https://www.usnap.org/technical-overview

I actually have some Subzero fridges that implement this standard. But quite honestly, it’s a bust for end-users for two reasons:

  1. It is set up for the grid side and demand response, so all the access and hardware is designed for low bandwidth and clunky utility communication.

  2. Even though my appliances include the interface, they don’t have built-in communication, so you have to buy an add-on card for 50 bucks, plus then it can only communicate with a specialized hub that is designed to communicate with the utilities.

Sometimes an ill-defined standard with poor commercial adoption, is worse than none at all. I’m guessing that this standard has derailed more customer-facing efforts at appliance makers.

I also have friends who have developer IoT connections to major appliances at companies like Arrayant and Ayla Networks, but those are all appliance maker proprietary and only in high end models.


#79

If your Night Light still hasn’t been detected, have you tried unplugging the Wemo then plugging it back in? I had to do that to 6 of my 7 HS110s after I first set them up and downloaded new firmware. Otherwise they kept saying “Not Detected”. They’ve worked great since.


#80

Okay, here’s a question:

Could one of the smart plugs models now supported be used to detect different devices in succession?

Example:

  1. Use smart plug with Device A – eventually Sense detects it.
  2. Move smart plug to another outlet in the house, for use with Device B.
  3. Does Sense then…
    A. …Think Device B is Device A and get “confused”?
    B. …Remember Device A’s signature without the smart plug?

If option “B” above, then just having one smart plug could really help speed up device detection.

Thanks,

Ben W.