A mix of both. Most items are on the Likely list though. I guess there is not much of an option other than waiting a bit more or doing a bit more work to figure out how to pinpoint devices that are otherwise lumped into the “Always On” or the “Other” category.
I try to be understanding, but maybe it was a miscalculation on my part regarding what to expect. Detecting electronics and things of that nature can’t be easy at all, but I think I was expecting more. The system is definitely helpful but being seemingly unable to manually identify devices is a bit of a letdown, especially if so many items would be less likely discovered.
Is there an official list anywhere of Likely and Unlikely device types when it comes to detection?
It would be interesting to hear the items on the Likely list that Sense hasn’t detected yet.
Sense doesn’t publish a Likely / Unlikely list, partially because it changes over time and partially I’m guessing because they don’t want to paint a big bullseye on their weaknesses especially if they one day hope to improve with something like progressive detection.
One bit of explanation - Sense made an early decision that they wanted to do immediate detection, where the the bubble pops up within a second or two of the device turning on. That decision limited their detection to devices that have a very clear, and distinct half second on and off transition. Unfortunately many devices in the Unlikely category do not have clear single on/off transitions. You suggest that electronics might be hard - quite honestly, with the immediate detection constraint, it’s impossible. My 2c is that smart plugs are a good addition for large usage electronics and electrically controlled motors, if you want to trac their usage. The Kasa integration is pretty good and the KP115 plugs can be found fairly cheaply.
This is actually very helpful. I am generally ok with making use of other smart devices. Lately however I have been reevaluating how many of them I really want to deal with. I have gone through and planned out how I want my home to function as far as connected electronics go and one of the main items I was looking to get from the sense is a reliable map of what appliances are using how much power since they are generally the power hungry ones, but unfortunately they are the exact items that do not show up with the sense, so I have had to make adjustments. Not the end of the world, but still a little dissapointing.
For smart devices, I have mostly shifted to using z-wave or zigbee switches so I can cut down on wifi enabled items so I might look for some plugs in that category and see if I can get the power monitoring to play nicely.
My 2c,
You might prefer Zigbee, but I found that Sense plus 1-2 Traveller Kasa KP115s were perfect for doing what you describe - assessing power usage of most of the appliances and consumer electronics devices in my house. You can learn a lot from putting each device on a KP115 for 48 hours.
Time history of big variable power users through different modes. Lots of examples of what smartplugs can do in the Community Device Library, all supplied by various users.
Always On behavior, especially for more stable usage devices. Sense automatically calculates the Always On energy usage for devices that are on a smartplug for more than 24 hours.
Wondering if the Sense team has looked into a Hub with wireless sensors that be used on devices and subpanels. Seems like it would solve much of what has been asked about device fidelity and multi Sense monitors around large homes.
This makes a lot of sense. Might be worth a try. Are you getting these readings through an integration or is it simply from using the Kasa KP115? It might be a silly question, but I figure if I could use the plug without connecting it to wifi that would be cool. I don’t see how that would at all be possible but I don’t mind asking silly questions just in case.
The KP115 is connected to the local LAN via WiFi and the Sense TP-Link Integration is turned on. Sense sales data from the KP115 every 2 seconds giving you device info including the Always On data. But you get a full time history of usage as well.
I wish there was a better way to assist with device discovery. I was up to 11 furnaces. I’m not sure if merging is better than deleting and letting it try again.
It would be amazing if sense had a way to monitor additional circuits with high load devices like A/C compressors, furnace fans, EV chargers, electric water heaters.
It would also be great if we could populate a list of known appliances to help with the ML identification. It could know I have two A/C units, a gas water heater with electric exhaust fan, two TV’s and the models. Could also have additional sensors on individual circuits for dedicated disposer, dishwasher, washing machine, dryer circuits.
After about a year, similar experience as others in this thread. Sense has only identified a few devices, and then it keeps “forgetting” them and finding new versions of those devices. My “other” bubble is now getting bigger instead of shrinking. It also is mislabeling/swapping things…the thing that’s “Furnace” in the screenshot below (the one that’s on) used to actually be the furnace — I confirmed it by turning it on/off — but today I’ve figured out it’s not the furnace anymore, I think it’s actually the washing machine (the washing machine is running right now, the furnace is not). Plus the dryer is running right now, but it’s been lumped back into Other, instead of the thing that had been previously identified as the Dryer:
That list is it, by the way. A year, and that’s all it has. And nearly half of those on that list have been “forgotten” and aren’t working anymore (they don’t light up in Sense even when they turn on). No changes to our electrical system, or new appliances, other than installing a Tesla charger (one thing it did correctly identify by itself).
I have tried all the tricks I’ve found on these forums — declaring specific devices where possible, enabling network scanning, etc. The product is just broken, and after years of people posting the same things on these forums, Sense doesn’t seem to have a way to make it better. I get it, it’s a hard problem, but taking away features where you can give it feedback (“this device isn’t on right now”) and not enhancing the learning model to somehow factor in more user input … it just feels like Sense is coasting on the name recognition they got from being among the first to market with a consumer-friendly energy monitoring system.
Yeah, I am kicking myself so hard for not getting one of the products that does per-circuit monitoring. That would have been way more useful. Although it would have been pretty expensive for me because I have a lot of discrete circuits.
@rogersmj I agree with the sentiment that they are (or seemingly are to their customers) just resting on their ML laurels. As Tesla has shown with their full self-driving, it takes a huge collection of data, countless hours of processing, and even human intervention to have any progress in the ML front. If Sense can’t have the customer base scaled enough to provide that amount of data then it will continue to just be a novelty item in our panels.
Smart plug integration isn’t going to get them there as people aren’t going to fill their outlets with these devices just to detect when simple items like lamp or a coffee maker are running. Based on my experience, it doesn’t seem the Ecobee integration makes a difference either, but they need to figure out those 240v devices somehow. They are the largest percentage of the usage for most people. They have a feature that allows for circuit monitoring with an additional set of CT sensors, but that is limited to a single 240V circuit. If that allowed the system to be informed and trained on what was connected to it then it would be beneficial, but they still don’t allow the user to specify what single device this should be powering.
Again, their partnership with Schneider should afford them luxuries to integrate directly with potential products like smart mini-breakers (or even the panel board itself; ala SPAN) that they could tap into for current monitoring and further device detection with the installer specifying what is fed by the circuit. Some things may be in the works, but in the meantime all we have is a rebranded Sense monitor in a green and beige package.
So I’ve since moved on to another brand and given my parents the Sense to help do some load monitoring for a potential panel upgrade. Works really well for that simple task!
