Mystery Device (Solved!)

#41

Samwooly1, I don’t have much to lose, it has only identified this one mystery device in the 2 days that I have owned it :slight_smile:

#42

Is Sense sharing that breaker with anything else? That could be your clue.

#43

Ah, missed that. Looking more and more like a heating device somewhere in your systems. Does it stop completely in the summer?

#44

My home has two sub-panels, one for the wood shop and one for the exercise studio. Both are 50 amp feeds. So, samwooly’s question could be the key for you

#45

Andy, as far as i know the sense is sharing the breaker with a stove in the basement (which I currently have unplugged)

#46

I’ll have to take the front panel off to take a look at the 120 breakers but it is worth a try.

#47

@michael.haws
You may only have two detections currently but sense it working in the background. The data it’s gathered those two day may not be much but could also be a lot more then you think it is.
I didn’t want it to sound as if I was advising you to open your panel. I’m comfortable with working in mine but others may want to hire an electrician.

#48

I installed sense myself so I am comfortable moving it if necessary.

#49

I would concur, do not move your Sense to a different breaker, it will mess up a variety of things and potentially set you back to square one again.

Since you’ve turned off all your 240V breakers (since I do agree that it seems to be a 240V device), has the signature showed up again since?

#50

@oshawapilot , it continues to show up. Keep in mind that I can not turn off the 240 breaker that sense is connected to, but I did unplug the stove that is connected to that breaker. So unless there is another device on that 240 breaker ( besides the stove) … not sure where the answer lies. All other 240 breakers have been turned off.

#51

Head scratcher for sure. The weird idea of two 110v loads somehow synchronized is looking more likely or somehow you have a “hidden” load panel. Can’t think of a third possibility.

#52

I think @andy is right about a hidden load center.
You mentioned having a basement with a stove. I could see why there would be a sub panel located in the basement. If a breaker was tripped, wouldn’t have to run upstairs to reset.
Depending on the age of the house the basement stove breaker could be smaller in a sub panel and the 50 you think is feeding that stove is actually feeding another panel.

#53

@samwooly1 , I suppose it is possible that there is another panel somewhere that is being fed by the 50 amp breaker but in 25+ years of living in this house, I have not see it :slight_smile: I think my next step is going to be to move the sense to a different 240 breaker and see if that will help me track down the culprit.

#54

I wouldn’t move it but if you do, make sure you keep the sense on the same legs they are currently on.
Let’s say the breaker you are currently using for sense is on the left of the panel. If the red wire is in the top wire slot of the breaker and black in the bottom, that’s how you’ll want to reinsert them. This would only be accurate if you move up or down on the same side of the panel and the new breaker you move to doesn’t have any single pole breakers between the current and new.
Hard to explain.
Another way to think about it is when you move the sense wires, make sure it’s an even number of slots and not odd.

#55

@samwooly1 thanks for the tip, I was unaware of the need to stay on the same side of panel and an even number of slots away!!!

#56

As luck would have it, there are an odd number of slots between the 240 breakers on the right side where the sense is. If I am understanding things correctly, this would mean I would need to swap the black and red positions if I move it to the other 240 on right side???

#57

the Panels are misunderstood quite often and it’s thought the breakers on the left are getting power from the main wire on the left and the right is the same. That’s not the case at all. When you put a double pole breaker in, it’s getting power from both the left main and right equally at the same time. A single pole breaker may be in a left slot but is actually getting power from the right hand side.
Every other slot on each side pulls power from the opposite sides main.
You could move sense to the opposite side of the panel and still get it hooked up the way it was before.
This is why our loads are always balanced and we don’t use much more electricity from one side versus the other.
Maybe this pic explains it better. You can see how the mains snake back and forth with breakers removed.

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#58

Thanks for pic @samwooly1 !!!

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#59

I was curious about a stove at less than 50 amps as I know they used to be common. To my surprise, they still make them. They have 30 and 40 amp models available today. I’m thinking there is a possibility you have a 30 amp basement stove on a 30 amp breaker in a panel hidden somewhere. If that the case and a 50 from your main panel is feeding it then it’s also likely there is an additional 20 amp breaker there too. Maybe far fetched but possible

#60

Nicely described, thanks for your clarification, it should help people who are faced with moving the connection. A picture is indeed worth a thousand words.

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