Got an alert that my energy use spiked to a new record which didn’t seem right. When I checked the app all of a sudden my usage is matching my solar production. Seems to have started this morning as the sun came up. Everything was working normally before for the past couple months. What would cause these types of readings to suddenly appear? Nothing has been changed or moved in the panels. No one has touched the CT’s. Did one go bad? Or is it a problem with my monitor possibly?
@nlanzano , it could be a hardware issue, but there have been a spate of working Sense solar installs recently that have lost their configurations on the Sense end and exhibit this symptom. Would suggest contacting support@sense.com.
This has been going on for years now.
Out of the blue the configuration changes.
I probably have the image of one always complaining, but if after years sense still does not have this particular problem under control, how serious can you take a company ?
2 Likes
Yes I have contacted them. First I got the canned response to check my Ct configurations. I replied to that explaining that the system was working properly for months and has not been touched since it was installed. Now they want me to take it all apart and send picture evidence before they will look further into it. My solar CT’s aren’t even in my main panel they are next to it in a disconnect box. It’s physically impossible for them to be on the wrong wire. They should have fun with my pics there are CT clamps all
Over the place because I’m using 2 sense units at once due to split 400 amp service.
This is my 3rd sense unit I’ve installed and the first time one has gone haywire.
The software of Sense is a complete MESS
Why would something change suddenly ?
You had no change in your config/output.
No open tickets.
BOOM
software flipped the setting from supply-side <-> load-side PV hookup.
Many many people have experienced this and opened tickets.
This has been going on for years.
And simply put: nobody cares.
They seem to be more interested in getting new customers than keeping the existing customers happy.
Not a good trade in my book.
1 Like
Before you open everything up, try doing a power cycle on the Sense (just flip the breaker off, wait a minute, and flip it back on). I had a solar issue a couple years ago, contacted support, they wanted a picture inside the panel, so I decided to power-cycle first, and that fixed the issue.
Not that this makes everything better, but it’ll save you some time doing something that just has support shrug and ask you to power cycle.
1 Like
This has nothing to do with the unit.
It is a software setting that magically flips at the server (Sense HQ) side of the equation.
The support people only need to reset the flipped setting and everything is back to “normal”
This has been discussed many times over the years.
1 Like
Thanks… I did try that before even reaching out to them. I am the type to do everything besides rewrite code to fix something before I have to deal with support. Mostly because when I do reach out to support I have to go through all the basics for now almost a week before we can actually start to fix something. Fun stuff for sure.
1 Like
I don’t doubt that there’s a software issue at the core. I’m just saying that when I experienced some strange solar data, a reboot fixed the problem. Whatever strange state the unit got into that caused the data to be misinterpreted was set back to a proper state upon rebooting.
1 Like
I can assure you this isn’t the case when PV production suddenly follows usage like this event.
My system magically started working again on the first of the month. But it gets even better. Tech support was a complete joke. I will post the 17 emails back and forth it’s like I’m speaking to a bot the entire time. The thread ends with them telling me how sense works and that it doesn’t support 400 amp split with solar. I told them in every single email that I was using 2 sense units because I know how they do and don’t work. Meanwhile it was working fine for months was the entire point of the ticket. Pretty sure they proceeded to tell me it doesn’t work after I told them that it magically started working too. Wow…. That was insane.
2 Likes
Based solely on assumption, I’m pretty sure the Sense ticket system works similar to this:
Tier 1 support are essentially human bots that input keywords from your ticket into the “Help & Faq” bot then cut & paste the bots response. They have no access to your account. If you respond to their response your ticket is automatically passed up to someone else. If you do not respond within 1-3 days it is automatically closed.
Tier 2 support does receive some very basic training and can assist with very basic troubleshooting, similar to a tree format. They have limited access and ability to make very minor check box changes. Often times tickets will get stuck at this level, fearful of repercussions should the lead think they could have handled it on their own. Hence why you should always demand a lead. If you do not respond within 3-7days it is automatically closed.
Tier 3 support (lead support/escalations) does receive some training from Sense and deals more complicated, one-off and system wide issues. They have special access to your account and can make more in-depth changes. Sense requires a strict vetting process (triage) before creating an internal ticket to the Sense software or engineering team. Usually requiring a certain number of similar tickets for the exact problem or a obvious (to them) system wide outage before reaching out to their Sense corporate contact. If you do not respond within 7-30 days it is automatically closed.
If they say they are aware and/or monitoring the issue it means others have submitted similar tickets but it does not (yet) meet the strict criteria for submitting an internal ticket. If you do not respond within 1-2 months it is automatically closed.
If they say engineering has been notified and/or working on it, that means the issue met the criteria for submitting an internal ticket. Ticket does not automatically close.
Often times lower level 1-2 will inappropriately close or merge ticket to artificially boost their turnover time and volume to make their bonus.
Level 3/leads are not bound by any time frame so they will leave tickets open until they time out or get around to closing them. Most often without ever re-visiting the ticket or following up especially if they sent the last message.
I can totally understand why most support agents appear completely clueless to us, because rightfully so they really are. This format of outsourcing all support to a 4th or even 3rd party does not work due to the very nature of Sense, it’s dependency on the backend, AI and the extreme uniqueness for every customer.
This format is not bad for most corporations that offer standard product such as iot devices and most apps, that have limited variables and failure points.
One additional thing to remember is that Sense is only compatible with split-phase, 120/240V, 60Hz grids. India’s grid is 230V 50hz. They have never actually used Sense.
The executives at Sense clearly overlooked the uniqueness of their own product when switching to this support model and we are all suffering as a result. Hopefully they start paying more attention to everyone down the chain and realize the wide ranging negative effects this is having on the overall brand.
5 Likes
I was just drinking my after dinner coffee when this reply arrived.
[Cleaning my monitor now]
LOL
1 Like
Laughing Senselessly at Sense making so little Sense?
1 Like
So reviving this old ticket because I have ran into the same issue, albeit my system never automatically configured correctly even after the automatic signal check. I am currently in the middle of an open support case so that I can likely get someone to flip the necessary switch server-side. I think based on obscuredtrip’s ticket system breakdown, I made it to Tier 2 or maybe Tier 3 pretty quickly…
My question is why is this issue so common and difficult for someone to automate on Sense’s backend? I am almost 100% positive this could be addressed with some simple logic. Here is what I understand:
-
So you install Sense and then have to do a “solar calibration” which requires your panels to at least be producing 500 W. Okay, no issues there in terms of my personal experience.
-
At this point, Sense does not know if your PV system is installed with a breaker feed or a service side tap, and also would not know on a service side tap if the CT clamps are before or after the solar tap (see the solar installation help topic on the Sense website, can’t include a link here). This is all fine, since I believe I understand there is no way of the module knowing if the clamps were installed in the right direction, if the home electrical consumption is higher than what the PV system is capable of producing or producing at the current moment (e.g. cloudy conditions), etc. All it can read is the output at each CT clamp, but cannot really consider positive or negative values yet (due to potential directionality problems with how the clamps were installed)
-
So I am completely fine with everything up to this point. However, in my case, it seems that Sense initially defaults to “configuration B” with a service-side tap on the support page link I listed previously. This, from what I understand, is a much less common type of installation method. I know that I have a breaker fed solar installation.
-
After my automatic signal check, which took about a full day to complete, the calculations for my home’s consumption never changed/corrected themself. So when the sun is shining bright enough, the consumption values are registering as zero or negative, depending if I look in the app or web portal.
I am having a hard time understanding why the backend switch or whatever would be so hard to automatically switch to the right calculation method, meaning that either the CT clamps are just reading the home’s electrical consumption or reading a “net value” (incoming/outgoing from/to the grid). I think we are talking about a simple logic problem here since the way the clamps have been installed should be obvious when either one or both of the main CT clamps eventually switch polarities from daytime vs. nighttime or when the home consumption history shows that values become much lower during peak daytime hours. I understand that the programming cannot make the assumption before gathering any data but once the signal check is complete, there should be about a day’s worth of data to figure it out in almost 100% of cases.
We are maybe talking about a high school level math/logic problem here, right?
2 Likes
My take is that Sense gets it wrong more frequently than it should, and there’s also no excuse for the spontaneous “configuration borking” that has happened to some solar users who originally had working systems , then suddenly see things get flipped. But configuration is probably a little bit more complicated than you envision. Thinking aloud, there are probably 128 possible different solar configurations that Sense has to discern between when setting up:
- Hook-up - Service side taps or breaker fed - 2 possibilities
- Polarity - Each CT can be in 1 of two possible configurations - normal or flipped - 8 possibilities.
- Phase/Legs - Ordering of phases for each pair of CTs can be L0/L1 or L1/L0 - 4 possibilities. This is made especially challenging because there is no easy way to determine phase without sorting out normal or flipped CTs. A flipped CT looks like it is attached to the opposite phase.
That last bit makes it a much more complicated logic puzzle.
since during setup you have to switch off PV and then turn it on again, sense will know the polarity of the PV CT’s 100% sure, no guessing needed.
So that is 2 CT’s with 2 possibilities less so we are down to only 32 possible combinations.
The problem is the algorithm that Sense does not want to change.
During setup, when you switch PV off, there can only be 2 CT’s that USE current.
So you know the polarity of each of the CT’s. that is /4 only 8 possibilities left.
when PV comes back after switching it on and waiting the 5 minutes, you would know the polarity of the PV Ct’s as well.
If the usage CT’s go less with the same amount as the PV CT’s go up, you know whether you have supply side or load side PV hookup.
There are no guesses and in general Sense has it right.
But it happened multiple times with my system and a few of my customers that after months of working correctly, something flipped the setup at sense for supply/load side and people start seeing solar production and no usage information.
This is a pure software issue that Sense is not able to figure out to figure out.
That worries me a lot.
3 Likes
Not sure how an off / on cycle helps ID polarity if Sense has to deal with the case where any and all CTs could be reversed. Sense already knows which two CTs are the solar ones, but that doesn’t help divine polarity or phase. Unless there are some signs that the inverter gives prior to syncing with each main.
so you ask the customer to switch off PV
you measure near 0.
ask the customer to turn on pc and after 300 sec/5 minutes
one of the CT’s reads positive and the other negative.
They both go up the same amount of current in the same amount of time, just the opposite direction
You mean you would not be able deduct which CT has the wrong polarity ?
It might be impossible to determine which PV CT is on L1 and which is on L2.
But since Sense has said to me in conversations with support, that Sense only recognizes PV at 240 volt it wouldn’t matter.
Just like enphase does in their combiner box, they only use 1 CT to measure production.
Theoratically Sense could do the same.
The current at the inverse CT is AC so there is no real notion of direction, except vs a reference voltage. It just goes back and forth at 60 cycles / second.