Wrong reference point: why currently sense is useless to me

I have a hybrid inverter installed.

It roughly looks like this

Screenshot from 2022-11-11 06-45-45

During the day once the batteries are charged it will export energy to the grid.
I asked Sense support where I should hookup my hybrid inverter and they told me to hook it up through the Solar CT’s

So my loads are behind the inverter.
My inverter is set to use the batteries till it is empty and then it will feed the load from the grid
That is what happened this early morning
According to Sense this is what is happening at that point

Screenshot from 2022-11-11 06-37-32

That picture is plain wrong!

Solar is showing -3000 watt. meaning 3000 watt is flowing through the solar CT’s towards my inverter. That is 100% accurate BUT there is only 1 place that energy can come from: THE GRID
And according to Sense the grid usage is only using 185 watt.

Why is Sense not showing the real usage of the GRID CT’s ?

This makes Sense and all statistics derived from the CT readings (kWh) false and useless.

Will open a ticket and refere to this thread.
Hope someone from Sense engages in this discussion.

I don’t have a hybrid inverter (or batteries), but when my solar panels produce energy, the number is positive, not negative. You say that the -3000W means that your panels are producing 3kW? Can you add the Sense CTs to your picture above (I’m particularly interested in whether the battery is included in the solar CTs)?


No, it means the solar CT’s are correctly measuring that 3000 watts is being pulled through them TOWARDS the inverter (and the loads behind the inverter)

This is the battery Soc (state of charge) of my system yesterday

You can see that when the sun rises, it starts to charge the battery and at sunset (around 5PM) the battery starts to get discharged and provides the energy for the house.
During this morning this happens:
Screenshot from 2022-11-11 09-27-00

Around 6AM my batteries reaches 20% SoC and the inverter stops draining the battery.
The loads are switched to be powered by the grid.
This is a graph from my smart meter

Clearly showing i was pulling energy from the grid at that point.

But Sense correctly shows negative PV power, but the MAINS/GRID CT’S should be showing the same amount of energy flowing throught those CT’s but instead it says 185 watts.

Is your “on-grid load” branch consuming just a small amount, and your battery charging + backup load consuming the 3kW? Sense does weird things with solar values.

Consider these (very simple) scenarios:
Sense sees solar reading of 5kW.
Sense sees grid reading of 1kW.
Calculation says total load = solar + grid = 6kW.

Sense sees solar reading of 5kW.
Sense sees grid reading of -2kW.
Calculation says total load = solar + grid = 3kW.

Both of those are easy to comprehend. When solar goes negative, things get weird:

Sense sees solar reading of -3kW.
Sense sees grid reading of 3.5kW.
Calculation says total load = solar + grid = 0.5kW.

I think the data should treat a negative solar number as zero for total load. It may, however, be useful (like in your setup) to see the actual data (current and historical) for those CTs too. As storage becomes more common, I think this is something the Sense team will need to figure out how to manage.

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Yes, my EV (and other heavy loads) were not using anything significant at that point.
The whole house behind the hybrid inverter was using 99.9% of the 3000 watt

Imo it should ALWAYS follow/show/calculate the GRID CT’s as the one that is to be trusted.
Hence my topic: wrong reference point.
Currently the load is calculated by Sense, where as imo it should simply be the GRID CT readings.

The problem is that, when your solar system is producing energy, the total house load is not just what the grid CTs read. Your consumption includes the self-generated energy as well.

The load should be calculated, not the usage from/to the grid

look again at the initial screen shot I posted

Screenshot from 2022-11-11 06-37-32
This is from webpage → settings → monitor

The labels say:

it does not say

it basically is what at that moment the CT’s are reading.
and i am 100% sure the MAINS reading is 100% wrong.

Do you agree with that ?

Another example why the Sense data is inaccurate

This is the power meter last hour according to Sense:

And this is the same time frame according to the smart meter

The patterns don’t add up to the same

I agree that the mains reading looks wrong. I don’t recall what my app shows when my solar system is producing, and, right now, the panels are covered with snow, so I’m not producing anything. It really shouldn’t matter though (which is your point): the mains reading should be what is actually flowing through those CTs.

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Hey @dannyterhaar, it looks like our Support team responded to your ticket on 11/14 and they would be happy to work with you to troubleshoot.

No they didn’t
They mixed up cases

“sometimes get weird error in webpage” is what I got a reply on.

And that reply was

You got that message because one of your tickets was merged to another existing one incorrectly. I apologize for the confusion.

Let me know once you’ve been able to confirm whether either of your solar sensors is being prevented from closing. If you can send me a phot oof the actual point that your second set of solar panels connects to your home’s electrical system, and also a picture of where the solar sensors are placed relative to this, that might help us to see where this signal is coming from as well.

I just replied to it

It is really really confusing what they are responding to!

And the suggestion the clamps are not closed is total and utter nonsense.
It even has nothing to do with the subject of the ticket!

Support is really making a mess of things imo atm

Understood @dannyterhaar, I’ll relay this information back to our team so they get to your ticket immediately.

Hey @dannyterhaar, I spoke with our team and they said your ticket was merged with another ticket as our team merges certain tickets if they are part of the same case. We apologize if that wasn’t explained better.

According to an analysis of your issue from the Support team, your current sensors are likely not closed or have been accidentally pushed open. Verifying this is or is not the case is critical toward being able to resolve this issue.

I replied yesterday and i provided photos (as asked)
I am 100% sure they are closed since I currently don’t have the inner shield installed
Not good that they did not provide you with that information even though i provided that information to them.
This was my reply from yesterday:

Tue, Nov 15, 1:49 PM (16 hours ago)

This is a reply to what support request again ?

I have 25kW of solar panels currently hooked up.
12 x M215 enphase micro inverters
3 x IQ8+ enphase micro inverters
2 x Sunnyboy TL inverters
1 x Fronius Inverter
1 x 8KW hybrid inverter with 24kWh of batteries
1 x 12 KW hybrid inverter with 2800 watt of panels, no batteries yet (on the ship to USA)

I currently don’t have the internal shield munted in my breaker box so it is IMPOSSIBLE any of the clamps are open.

Because I have a feeling you are going to nag me about it, I will make a photo
What ever you are trying to imply

So despite my efforts they are wasting my and your time/effort on this

And why, if tickets are merged, are they labeled SOLVED without being solved?

Ignoring the customer will make it go away?

I open different cases with different subjects for a reason
Merging tickets doesn’t mean merging subjects.
What is solved in these cases in the eyes of Sense ?

When our Support team receives a ticket/case, the case will always be handled as long as you respond. A ticket may be closed after a period of several days of inactivity if the customer does not respond and a reply is expected. If you find that your ticket/case is closed, you can reply, and your case will automatically be reopened, and our Support team will reply to it and continue to help you. This is almost always done within 24 hours or less of your reply time.

The Support rep on your specific case here will be continuously working with you through this issue until it is resolved on your end.


If I open a ticket and they write in the initial and ONLY reply

Thanks for reaching out to Sense!

We promise to get back to you as soon as we can.

And the next thing is that the status of this ticket is changed to SOLVED

you are implying they are waiting for MY INPUT at that point and I am the cause of them closing the ticket?

There is no further action you need to take if you already replied to one of the “solved” ticket cases. A rep from our Support team will reach out within 24 hours or less of your reply time.

Why doesn’t the status change to OPEN when I do a reply ?

I wrote back with this

Tue, Nov 15, 8:45 AM (22 hours ago)

So I never heard back, despite the promise “We promise to get back to you as soon as we can.”
and then close the case?!

Change the status to SOLVED ?
Maybe the customer will forget about it?

I think that is very SNEAKY!
And i mean that mildly

And the status is still SOLVED
Does that make sense to you?
So they still have 2 hours to respond…

Looking forward…