Thought I’d update the thread. My Rheem hybrid water heater picked up over the last month and detection is flawless now!
My mini-split heater uses more than half my power in the winter and after two years is not recognized. I understand that the variable speed motor makes it difficult to recognize. I solved the problem with 120 volt appliances by getting a few smart plugs but that won’t work for the hard wired 240 volt minisplit. So I wish for the ability to add a couple CT detectors that could function the way the smart plugs do. That would solve most of the problems on this topic.
Unfortunately, the CT transformers need measurement circuitry to talk to, and Sense has only two of those…one for power mains and one for solar.
What’s really needed is a 240v “smart module”, which you can wire into the power circuit for your mini-split (and similarly for dozens of other devices with similar detection problems) and which would talk to Sense like the smart plugs do. Unfortunately, Sense continues to ignore this need.
What about my two garage door openers. Mine are battery backup craftsmans that are opened and closed multiple times a day.
Battery backup openers use DC motors so they are much more difficult to detect, at least today. Standard AC openers are typically detected though all 3 of mine (same model) all show up as the same detections.
Kevin1 is correct about DC motors. I have 2 Liftmaster 8500W’s and 1 8500. None have been picked up yet. However both my 8500W trigger an LED light at the same time, and a deadbolt actuator likely complicating detection.
Universal devices integration to call out 30+ light switches through Insteon. Currently all other smart home hubs integrate with it.
So the Insteon switches measure power and communicate it at roughly a once per second rate ? That’s what the supported smartplugs do. And the Sense Hue hub integration supplies calculated power data based on specific characteristics of each bulb.
So I’m not sure how the communication works exactly but there is a plm modem that finds the switches through the electric line (powerline) and they all communicate to the modem through the common wire. The universal devices ISY interprets and controls the communication between switches and tracks their state. So sense could I threaten with UD ISY and track states like the other smart switches Wemo and read the energy change when the switch is activated and the energy change again when it is turned off to estimate/track the energy used for that switch. This would allow for you to identify the energy per room and switch throughout the entire house. You would be able to track on and off, set notifications, and gather data on different lights.
I’m willing to do whatever treat or beta or software change you would need to get this going. I have an above normal smart house and nothing other than Wemo and hue is picked up (smart wise).
Thanks for your thoughts. First off, I think what you are saying is that the Insteon switches and system do NOT provide power information directly like the TP-Link, Wemo and Hue integrations today. But they should be able to infer that information by linking Sense transitions to events coming from the Insteon controller?
“read the energy change when the switch is activated and the energy change again when it is turned off”
My take is that that all makes sense, but is harder than it looks for 4 reasons:
- If your house is anything like mine, you can have 3-4 events happening within a few seconds, so Sense would have to sort that out.
- From what I have seen, time resolution and latency aren’t the greatest on most home automation products. I have seen some that take 1,2 or even 5 seconds to update status at the controller/hub. Sometimes that is due to the data protocol used to communicate, sometimes due to queuing of events in the hub. I’m sure some systems are much more responsive/low latency, especially in most situations, but timing correlation between Sense and assorted controllers is still likely a big issue.
- Some fancy home automation systems do think like dim up and dim down the lights, even from the wall switch (my brother in law’s setup has four settings per wall switch). Those kind of controlled ons and offs may not even register as events for Sense if the transitions are too slow. That would also make it nearly impossible to read the energy change when on/off.
- The other tricky thing is that if you are going to rely on Sense to do the association (unlike the smartplugs and Hue integrations), it’s going to have to be done consistently with the rest of the Sense machine learning, where the switch levels are merely inputs into the machine learning. In otherwords, you can’t expect Sense to introduce your special algorithm in parallel to their current machine learning framework. it would have to be implemented within that framework so that that each event on the mains is only ascribed to a single detection.
Not trying to shoot down your suggestion - I really would like Sense to be able to intelligently read “features”, like on/off from home automation products for machine learning. But users have to understand that those home automation “features” aren’t as definitive as the actual power usage “ground truth” coming from devices like the currently supported smart plugs or the Hue hub.
I’m guessing that an integration with home automation systems would look closer to the current integration with Ecobee, where Sense uses the Ecobee history to improve data science and models for HVAC devices.
I understand your statements. How does hue work because I would think it would be similar. I’m just saying that I have had this since mid 2018 and I have around 100 light bulbs in my house and not one of them has been discovered. It to 1 year to find the vacuum. So sense tells me that I’m in the top always on, but never tells me what those items are. Also, I have a large other pull all the time. It’s time that something brew is added to read from devises when they are on and record the data. Also, there might be 1 instance in a month where two people turn two light in at a time to confuse the system. Something is better than nothing. I have a lot of appliances that I can see on, those things are foxed costs. No data on the rest of the house because it can’t fine it.
The Hue Hub REST API supports a call to supply a list of all the bulbs in the system with their room hierarchy plus their current consumption. Sense polls the Hub regularly to look for updates / changes. But the thing that is unique about the Hue Hub, vs. a smart switch based system is that the Hue knows about the status and power characteristics of every single bulb. Hue has each and every model of bulb characterized for consumption vs. dimming level.
This should be pretty predictable. I have 2 identical garage door openers and they appear as the same device. I am fine with that. But with the pattern that they make, it should be discovered pretty soon i would hope.
Our Liftmaster garage door openers haven’t been detected in two+ years, despite a dozen or more uses per day (our garage is effectively our front door and we go in and out ourselves and with the dogs all the time). I was told that’s because these actually run off the battery backup all the time and the built in battery charger doesn’t have a signature Sense can detect. There is also “always on” electronics in each unit, but I don’t know if that contributes to the un-detectability or not. Good luck with your units.
Anyone know of a garage door opening detector that Sense can talk to? They are 110vac plug in, so I suppose I could add a couple of HS110’s
Still new here but it would seem useful to have Sense take advantage of your homes profile when you input all the details of the devices in your home.
For example Sense detected my AC Condenser after a week, when I was notified “AC” was found I had to go in and transfer the previously inputted data like MFG and model to the newly discovered device. What’s the point of inputting all that data if the sense machine learning can’t recognize that user A has labeled their AC unit with details and tie that or suggest the transfer of data? Just a thought.
Keep up the great work!
I would be overjoyed, if Sense would identify my TVs!
Smart Plugs are the only option if you want accurate readings. Sense found my LG OLED B7 TV and the numbers completely useless.
So true. No way Sense is going to predict or disaggregate power signatures that vary so much based on content and volume. They might get a snapshot of the initial power on power using NDI, but the usage is highly variable after that.
@kevin1 Here is a cord that may help.
Only 6 inches long and cost $3.
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