What's new in v32 (iOS/Android)

[JustinAtSense]

Good afternoon!

v32 (iOS/Android) expands compatibility for the Sense monitor. You can now integrate Sense with your standby generator or, for users with split-service 400A systems, track consumption from both panels from one account. These new features utilize the monitor’s middle port.

We’ve also digitized our installation guides, and added two new guides specific to these features. Digital guides can be accessed via sense.com/guides.

You can set up these new features in two ways:

• New users — At install time by following the correct installation guide and in-app prompts
• Existing users — After installing via the correct installation guide, via My Home > Connected Devices > Data Sources

400A Split Service

Up to now, we’ve only supported single-panel split-phase 200A homes. This release adds support for split-service 400A homes, where service is provided via dual 200A panels. While the primary use case for this feature is split-service 400A homes, it will also work with split-service homes with service less than 400A, like dual 150A panel homes.

Data coming off both panels will be summed within the app, so your Sense experience will remain the same.

Generators

Users with standby generators can now use the middle port to track generator production within Sense. If your grid power is interrupted, Sense can tell you when your standby generator takes over and how much total energy your home is using. You can also get alerts when your generator turns on or off.

Note that while the standby generator is running, device information may not be available.

Importantly, the middle port can only be used for one feature at a time. Users with solar will not be able to utilize generator or 400A monitoring.

To purchase Sense Flex add-on sensors or extension cables, click here.

Note that these are being restocked and orders should ship within a couple of weeks.

[hernan]

This is exciting! Can this be used to monitor parallel feeds? If so, are there any recommendations for putting two Sense monitor inside a single panel? I’m curious about wifi concerns, or sharing a single breaker.

Taking a step back, given that two monitor is a bit overkill: could parallel feeds be supported via a single Sense monitor with some form of two-clamp adapter?

[RyanAtSense]

We think it’s exciting too!

Just to be clear, you’re referring to a 200A panel with four mains, like this?

The “parallel” nomenclature can be used a bit differently, but the above image is what we mean when we reference a parallel feed, which this release is unfortunately not adding support for. It’s quite a different beast than 400A where service is split to two independent panels. It’s possible that support may be added in the future, but a timeline is uncertain.

[clonea1]

i got excited and then realized, this wont work for solar installs as you have to use the solar port for this

[hernan]

Yes, Ryan, that’s correct.

Is there a technical reason why the new feature can’t be used to “fake” independent panels out of the parallel feeds? I’m assuming it might be due to clamps not fitting properly.

In my particular case, my main panel has a parallel feed that connects to three (technically four) breakers:

• Solar
• House sub-panel
• EV charger
• Sense

I decided to put the Sense clamps around the “house sub-panel” cables, but it means the EV charger is not being monitored. I’m wondering if I could use the new feature to add a Sense monitor and use that to put clamps around the EV charger breaker.

Yes, it’s overkill, but data!

[RyanAtSense]

The core issue is the way loads are spread across the parallel feeders. There’s also a backend reason with the way we’re summing the signals that won’t allow for such a setup. Finally, there’s also the ergonomic reason that you note — spacing is very tight in these panels and the cables are quite rigid, usually not allowing for CT placement on all four feeds.

I don’t believe this feature would do what you’re hoping for. You’d “see” the EV consumption, but it would just be summed in with the total usage and not isolated. I’m going to PM you about something related though that you might find interesting…

[kevin1]

Gonna post my 400A Split Service beta experience here one more time with the latest data, mostly to share the main moral for Sense usage - Always close your CTs completely

I installed my additional CTs for dual panel on 5/26 and let them go for about a week, only to discover that my dual panel Sense hourly reading was consistently below my utility reading by about 2.5%, or almost 4.5% if I took out a couple EV charging datapoints. I popped into my main breaker box, rejiggered the newly installed CTs on 6/3 and waited a while to rechart. After the CT adjustment, my dual Sense data was essentially dead-on with my utility data on an hourly basis with very little scatter.

Here’s the unity plot of Before and After the CT change.

And here’s the histogram of the error vs. my utility reading, both Before and After. The ideal, of course, is a tall vertical bar right at 0, kind of like the After portion.

Moral of the story - when you install your additional CTs, make sure they are completely closed !

[kentrombatore]

I was SO excited to see the email UNTIL I realized it doesn’t work for Sense Solar customers because you are just using the solar port. Same data collection, different manipulation. Have two Sense Monitors, and I guess it’s going to be staying that way unless there is a plan for data aggregation in the cloud or Sense is working on Sense 400A + Solar hardware. This has been an open request for years.

[kevin1]

I wouldn’t totally despair. This update likely required a significant change in the Sense cloud to make data collection and aggregation of user data more configurable. I have Solar and dual panel 400A as well, but I was able to put the mains CTs on my pre-panel 400A mains, so I have all my data in one. But I did buy a second Sense for the dual-panel beta, plus I’m thinking of using the second Sense for a couple of 240V circuits in the future.

[kentrombatore]

To be honest, I don’t know how signification the changes to the cloud were. The Sense was already sending usage and solar data in the same stream and showed them separately. Now it’s just combined into a single bucket. Really just directing data to a different bucket.
Would really like to see an actual in cloud data aggregation or multiple Sense stream. I know there could be timing issues, but I’d be willing to accept a short time delay in data display to get aggregation.
But, really, Sense should develop a 400amp hardware offering. As electric car adoption expands, more people will need 400 amp service as they add chargers. It’s a different world, in the just 4-5 years since Sense was launched.

[rosenblumb]

If we already have two sensors and want to take advantage of the 400A service can we use our existing clamps assuming the wires are long enough?

[kevin1]

@kentrombatore, my main Sense setup is directly connected to a 400A main with the center port connected to solar. I have 2 big-time power chortling EVs, one at 80A and one at 48A 240V. And the main Sense setup has worked just fine over the past 3 years with great accuracy. We tend to charge the cars between 1am and 6am, so we don’t usually see overlap between the EVs and AC, so my current probably never exceeds 200A in reality.

But I bought an extra Sense to test the dual panel 400A solution, with the eventual goal of putting that Sense on the two 240V EV charge circuits (or whatever else needs the detection boost)

[RyanAtSense]

It depends what you mean by “existing clamps.” Do you mean you already have two sets of CTs? If the second pair was designed for Sense Solar, then yes you can (they’d have a solar sticker). However, if they were designed as main CTs (no solar sticker), then they are not compatible.

[kevin1]

Not sure what happened, but my dual 400A setup suddenly “discovered” 6 new devices today

Now I have to track them down

[phillipkjohnson]

Is a new monitor available with an extra port for solar? If not, will there be? Thanks!

[phillipkjohnson]

Any reason you can’t use an adapter to combine the two sensor cables into one port, and plug the solar sensor cable into the other?

[kevin1]

Here’s a story of @partcrash splicing together two pairs of Sense CTs. Seems to work. I’m guessing you have to be extra careful about consistent polarities / orientations for each CT.

Share Your Sense 400 amp single monitor setup

I run dual 200 amp circuits into my house. The problem is that the transformer is in the Far side of the yard and from there to my house there are two 200 amp distinct circuits. So… no single point where I can install the Sense CTs. What I did was splice two sets of CTs in series (not in parallel- tried in parallel, but Sense did not recognise the CTs at all) and let it loose. I know this is an unsupported config, but Surpassingly it all works well, discovers new devices as expected, measures t…

[phillipkjohnson]

Thanks. Would an adapter not do the same thing, but in a cleaner fashion?

[kevin1]

A special purpose adapter would be better, but I get the feel that Sense wouldn’t want to support this combining approach directly due to several technical (clipping) and support considerations. I’m guessing that they are gradually building to supporting multiple Sense units on an account as the solution, but that’s just a guess.

[rosenblumb]

I’ve just installed the flex clamps to add my second panel and finished the in-app configuration. From the perspective of visual confirmation this is working, are the loads for each phase merged in the app now? When I go to Settings -> My Home -> Sense Monitor and look under Signals I only see the two like before (although it does look higher usage). Did the sense meter pair up the phases between the two panels and merge them together?