Your right about the separation of what happens with these loads and where they land (other, always on, detection). I have to admit the SENSA threads (Mensa for Sense aka Data Analysis) are above my head for the most part but I think all of us understand and have experienced the frustration of seeing what we think is easily identifiable end up not detected
1 Like
Agreed. If I could use a few extra CTs on dedicated circuits to pair with some smart plugs for major appliances, I would be much happier with my sense.
Quick question - are the big loads that you want to monitor:
- 240V ?
- wired into the house or hard to access the plug ?
- more than 2000W
I ask because smartplugs are really just additional CTs with the limitations I just highlighted.
Iād like the additional clamps for things like AC or water heater, which meet your criteria.
Iām happy to use smart plugs for the few devices that are 120v but major draw, like dehumidifier
1 Like
I do wish Sense had an add-on box similar to their competitor Curbās device with more CTs for in panel circuit monitoring. Iām about a year and a half in with Sense and our stove, oven, fridge, dishwasher, clothes washer & dryer, and AC systems are still a total mess with regards to detection. Some of those are 240V and their own circuits.
2 Likes
I expect the main motivation for individual circuit CTs would be to sort out 220V circuits. Sense still thinks one of our stove burners and the oven are identical. It canāt separate our 2 dryers.
110V can generally be handled with smart plugs, though I still like to have CTs on the circuits.
Some of our circuits are rarely, if ever, used. Probably not the highest priority, once you know it. But finding that out seems worth while. I finally just covered all our circuits with Curb.
One has a microwave that is more or less built in. One has bunches of devices that shouldnāt be on together, microwave, fridge, and misc other things, maybe sometimes including a hair dryer ā or two, vacuum cleanerā¦ I could smart plug everything on it individually, but knowing how close to the edge it is overall with a CT is easier and covers anything I might have missed.
Iām working on tracking the maxes for smart plugs and āotherā on a circuit. What happens if everything were to peak at once?
Things are always cheaper and quicker if they are done in software. I know Sense is working on combining two modules on one account so people with two houses or to structures on one property can use a Sense monitor with each building. Why not just add the ability to designate a second Sense as additional CTs? I was using the Solar CTs to detect my hot tub for months before I started putting solar panels on the roof. Seems like being able to designate the other CTs or a second Sense unitās CTs as additional datapoint on the same location would be a quick fix for these requests.
I worry about Senseās detection w/o CTs anyway. I often will see it show that my dishwasher has turned on, but the bubble for it is tiny, while the Other bubble is huge and nothing else is running. Perhaps it will eventually learn that all the rest of the energy being used is coming from that device, but it would be great to have a pair of CTs that clip on the hot tub circuit and captures not just when the heater comes on but each of the pumps at each of their various levels, the ionizer, and the dam circulation pump that is ALWAYS on at 57 watts. Itās never going to detect that, yet clamping on the Solar CTs it was immediately obvious to me.
Then just like my HS110 helps with tracking the power used by the plasma TV, this second Sense could track the usage of the hot tub and its other CTs could be clipped on the car charger. Thatās another thing I hear people complaining, Sense doesnāt catch all the power going to the car.
1 Like
For Sense, integrating 2 modules onto 1 account is definitely the quickest way to support additional CTs. But Iām really not a huge fan of adding a second sense unit just to get the extra CT clamps. Thatās an unnecessarily large expense, creates unnecessary redundancies, and uses up additional space in the box.
Iād much rather just see them come out with an upgraded sense box that can handle more CTs. There have been huge improvements in hardware over the last few years; why not make a box with more storage and processing power, as well as additional plugs for expanded CTs. You could sell the existing one with 1 CT as a base device for $200 (great whole house monitoring and decent device detection), and make a āproā level device that costs $300 + $25 per CT that can support up to 50 smart plugs and solar. At that point, I think Sense would have a dramatically better product than many other āprofessionalā options out there.
1 Like
Iād guess at least part of the reason they have lagged behind on hardware upgrades is not being able to integrate the features that would become available with older units. How many people with a unit a year old would be upset if something new came out and they were left behind? I sure would.
But just like an IPhone that needs replaced Avery few years to keep up, Sense is no different.
Hi @RyanAtSense - I am not sure this is the right thread, but it be awesome to add to the wishlist the possibility of additional CTās to get specific circuit usages why waiting for device recognition. I am trying to narrow down exactly what is causing my energy usage to get so high and itās a very slow process
This is already been discussed many times on the product wishlist and elsewhere.
I do know there has been discussion where a workaround was possible. They used the solar CTās. It would be somewhat tricky as solar CTās would be a negative flow of electricity but if testing a single circuit it can be done with some simple math.
Ah sorry - new to the forum - but that wonāt work, iām not opening up my solar sub panel to move the CTās which are routed through the conduit to test a circuit elsewhereā¦ it be nice if you could just put a splitter on and add addition CTās
A traveling Smartplug (HS110) might also be helpful, but only for the 120V pluggable devices under 4000W.
@evan.h.kent, as @kevin1 suggests, use a 120V smartplug for those devices ā¦ but 1800W is more like the max.
For higher wattage and/or voltage there are limited options.
Iāve done the math and the longer term calculus and the near term algebra and concluded that if you really want to monitor 208/240V and high-wattage devices the way to go is get an additional Sense.
Iād be careful with a smart plug over 1440 watts as the amperage is rated at 12 on the HS110.
I had one fail pushing 14 amps through it which was about 1600 watts.
1 Like
Iād buy a new unit for per circuit ct with sense style looking for signatures.
Are you saying you would want clamps for each circuit?
Iād have to have close to 80 clamps in my panel.
1 Like
Sam, Thatās what I did, but only 40 clamps. And filled in with smart plugs here and there. Itās very much a work in progress, but it sort looks like this right now: duanetiemann.com
Some circuits combine to make a device. Some devices combine to make a circuit. Legend and Help buttons help make sense of it. There is no Sense data in it right now. Maybe somedayā¦
The content is currently static. Iām working on getting it up on live data.
2 Likes
Nice work ! The interesting question is how much data is really needed given the 80/20 rule. 80% of the consumption comes from 20% of the devices for me. With Sense finally detecting most of my major devices, plus 5 smart-plug boosters, Other drops to about 12%, at least on some weeks.
2 Likes
Slick. I like your stacked chart ā¦ though I admit to thinking your link was going to show a picture of an impossibly neat electrical panel with all those wires!
Question: I see negative watts on a few circuits in your chart. Setup with a few flipped CTs before you take things live?
Donāt underestimate the danger of added complexity for mere mortals: