Device Detection Testing My Patience

I know I am supposed to be patient…and I have been… Fortunately, I did not purchase sense specifically for device level consumption information…

I read the reviews, and the comments here…and I was ready for a slow go…

So far, it has picked up 4 components of my refrigerator (fridge light, freezer light, compressor and defroster), a coffee maker, a paper shredder and my garage door. That’s it… I have had Sense installed since October 17th… So in 2.33 months it’s picked up four devices (7 if you count the refrigerator as four devices).

The last time it detected anything was my paper shredder on November 24th (so about 5 weeks of radio silence)…

Is this normal? How much patience is required to get more than a few devices recognized by the Sense AI? Two of the four devices I use all the time (refrigerator and coffee maker)… The other two barely get used at all (garage door and paper shredder)… I know a lot of people use their garage doors a lot…but my daily drivers are outside, and I would say that I use my paper shredder more than I use my garage door…

Anyway… Just a light hearted venting… :slight_smile: I am not upset or super irritated at this… But it is an amazingly and humorously slow process…

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Have you entered your home inventory in Sense. I ask that because that’s where I got a better picture of what was left for Sense to find.

  • Electronics - not likely, except for some TVs via NDI
  • Motors - AC motors yes. DC motors or variable speed (electronically controlled) motors, not likely.
  • Microwaves - old school transformer based, yes. Inverter-based, not likely
  • Big heating elements (stove, water heater, floor heater, dryer) - relay controlled, yes. Electronically controlled, not likely. Some might get conflated.
  • EV chargers - depends. Uses somewhat custom detection per car.

I have found that most of the devices that fit the ‘yes’ profile above, have eventually been natively detected in my house, including a few that had originally been on HS110s (Furnaces).

Just some pointers on how to narrow your mental list and set your expectations. Once you have weeded down your list to the remaining undetected candidates, it might be useful to see if Sense tags the on and off signatures in the live power meter. That power value tag kind of indicates the signature fits within Sense’s tagging window. Tag examples below.

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Yes… I filled in all of my household devices the first couple of days after my installation…

Mostly because I thought it was required, and that somehow there would be some consumption profiles that the backend would be able to match using that information…

Now that you mention it, I should go and validate the items again for accuracy… :slight_smile:

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I think the inventory is useful to help you, so Sense knows what kind of devices exist In what quantities in their enthusiastic customer base - which EV or type of pool pump should we target next.

I would be interested to hear which likely detections, per the criteria above, haven’t happened yet.

Almost everything on that list has gone undetected… I have two AV television set-ups, neither of the TVs, receivers, AV components or DVRs have been detected. Washer and Dryer not detected. Oven and kitchen appliances either not detected, or confused with my Coffee Maker… No computers (desktops or notebooks), printers or monitors have been detected… The three air purifiers I have running all the time, not detected… None of my lighting has been detected (beyond my the lights in my refrigerator).

I don’t know whether or not I am answering your question… So if the above is irrelevant and doesn’t answer your question, please ignore… :slight_smile:

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Based on the way the main detection mechanism of Sense works today, and my experience, you should probably look at your list this way:

Likely to be detected over time

  • Dryer heating element (if electric)
  • Maybe washer and dryer motors, but only if the are AC old school motors (neither of mine are)
  • Oven heating and range heating elements (if electric and if Sense sees enough cycles)
  • Some kitchen appliances - dishwasher heating element, trash compactor, coffee maker, instant hot water heater.
  • Incandescent and florescent lighting
  • Printer - laser printer heating element
  • Vacuum cleaners, motorized plug-in tools

Unlikely with current main detection mechanism
On and off signatures masked by power supplies, etc.

  • TVs, receivers, AV components and DVRs
  • DC and variable speed motors
  • Computers (laptops and desktops)
  • LED lighting (except for Hue) - I have seen some LED detected, but usually in homes that have a very low activity level of other devices.
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Cool… Thanks for the guidance…and expectations… :slight_smile:

Happy New Year!

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Very interesting. I have two garage openers, one we use daily, the other not so much, and so far it has detected none (after 2-3 months of usage). So, it’s ‘difficult’ to draw general conclusions. Mine has also detected the oven, kettle, sump and few other items. I have most of my ‘large’ devices on dedicated smart plugs (KP115). On the other hand there were some initial issues and Sense helped identify I was doing few things wrong. Granted, it’s a bit slow in detection but overall I’ve learned quite a few things in the process, about electrical panels, 2-phase power, how thermostats work (seems obvious until you dig a bit deep). All in all, you’re absolutely right, it’s a game of patience.

@MikeekiM If there are certain things you would like to see recognized, you could get a Kasa Smart TP-Link, Wi-Fi PowerStrip. I just got the HS300 and I can directly feed six identified items to Sense after the power strip was connected to Sense. I pugged it in and instantly filled up all 6 slots.

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How long have you had your Sense? Some of your devices are wishful thinking as far as being detected. Take the TVs, receivers, AV components and DVRs for instance. Electronics like that are small energy users, and have muddy on/off signatures. Not sure why you thought those would be quick detections, but since I knew those type of devices aren’t cleanly identified, I put my whole surge protector on a HS110. This also allows me to kill the power overnight (1/3 the day) and save money from vampire draw.

Other devices like your washer and dryer, depending on how new they are, can also be tricky. My early 2000’s washer was detected, but only the gas igniter on my early 2000’s gas dryer. I put a smart plug on the dryer, but not the washer since that was detected. I’ve since replaced the washer and put a plug on that. Looking at the signature now, I don’t foresee any way Sense natively would detect that. There’s no pattern to it at all. Is your oven gas or electric? Modern appliances, like fridges, also don’t have east signatures. My early 200’s fridge, now in the basement, was detected right away, because it only has a compressor and no other electronics, and because it runs for 1/4 of the day. Modern fridges have wifi, ice makers, AC compressors, and some have screens and cameras. Again, no east on/off detection. My toaster oven was almost immediately detected, so was my Keiureg. My double electric oven has gotten better over time, but started off only 50% detected. Computers, printers, monitors: see AV components above. As for lights, I’ve had two detected: one a set of six fluorescent tubes that totaled 200w and a single halogen fixture that is also 200w. I have since replace the fluorescents with LEDs that still add up to almost 100w, but haven’t been detected yet. Most of my other lights are LEDs and/or are on dimmers. Those will never be detected.

Everyone’s mileage varies, like my garage door opener hasn’t been detected, and I used it more than occasionally over the summer, but not everyday and certainly not anymore. None of my fridge lights have been detected, and none of my ceiling fans have been. My furnace, circulator pump, and condensate pump are all large devices that have all been natively detected. Asking for small electronics and phone chargers to be detected just isn’t realistic for a device that measures wattage and on/off signatures.

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Since October 17, 2020.

Just for clarification, I never expected any of this to be “quick”… In fact, as I mentioned in my original post, I was ready and prepared to be patient on all of the detections…

I am just a bit surprised (but not upset) that in ~2.5 months, only four devices have been detected (seven if you count the four components in my refrigerator as separate devices). AND, that the last detection was 5 weeks ago, followed by complete radio silence (as far as detections are concerned).

And, yes… I do understand that it’s the big energy consumption devices with obvious on/off signatures that will be detected… I only mentioned all of the devices in my household that has not been detected because that is what I thought @kevin1 was asking me for.

Anyway, like I said in my original post, not upset, not super irritated… Just a little light hearted venting that this is taking a lot longer than I expected, even with my expectation set…

Happy New Year everyone!

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If anything at all, this is a developing technology that uses information from multiple sources:

  1. The specific ‘signatures’ of the current traces, combined with the jump in Watts that the device records
  2. Whether the load is purely resistive (heater) or has a reactive component (coil/motor)
  3. What the user-base feeds information to the App ( I see a jump of 200W and I tell Sense it is an aquarium heater).
  4. … many more I can’t think of

All in all, it’s a lot of data to digest/ingest and make sense of … I’m very surprised that many on here had their garage openers detected relatively quickly … yet mine they’re still part of the ‘others’ bubble. When you think of it, there are not many garage openers out there on the market, and their signatures should be readily available (at least in my simplistic thinking). Then I can’t explain why mine have not been detected … really. Is it because of the specifics of my house/circuitry?

Maybe the one thing we can do, us the User-Base, is to input as correct as possible information about our devices, with specific make/model/etc. Not sure though whether Sense uses all of this in its ML/AI algorithms, but for sure if 300 of us have a whirlpool dual wall elecrical oven, that piece of information ‘should’ enable the algorithms to cross check signatures and device info.

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Great observations. 3 comments:

  • Garage openers - I have 3 identical (same model) AC garage door openers. Sense started detecting them fairly early on - a month or so after the new ones were installed. But detection is not 100%. Plus I have one on my roaming smartplug right now and the Sense detection misses two of the biggest usage components - Always On of about 4W from the opener continuously listening for the open signal, plus the 20W or so that stays on for a couple minutes after the door has opened or closed from the pair of LED bulbs)
  • Garage Opener variety - Many openers use DC motors that can’t be easily detected by Sense, most frequently those that have an option for battery backup.
  • Home Inventory - If Sense sees similar on and off signatures for 300 Whirlpool dual wall ovens it’s likely it will learn more that flavor of device unless it bleeds over into other devices. Likewise, if the data science people at Sense see 300 similar ovens in their user base and that flavor hasn’t been detected, it’s likely they will put some focus on searching for a model that works.

It would be nice for Sense to say up front what it won’t detect or things it would have difficulty to detect unless I missed it. From my short time using Sense (6 months), I don’t think it will detect anything on a power strip. It wont’ detect most LED bulbs. It did detect the outdoor LED floodlight.

Most large loads have been found. I am waiting for the range hood and Pool pump.

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Hey @slac101 - we’re working on being better at this, especially as it pertains to clearly setting expectations on what Sense is most likely to find through native detection. Releases from 2020 were focused on being able to “fill in those gaps” with things like Dedicated Circuit Monitoring and integrations for Generators and 400A split-service panels. We’re going to continue to help folks with the missing device gaps from Sense and will be announcing some exciting projects early this year.

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The dry spell is over!!! After 6.5 weeks of radio silence, a new device was finally detected!

It was my gas dryer…

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Wow… my LG OLED was detected today…

I wonder if it was detected as a discreet device itself, or if the power on and power off signatures of the group of devices I have my smart remote controlling was detected.

Like many with smart remotes, I have stuff all powering on and off at the same time (or in rapid sequence)

Anyone have any experience with this?

If it is a smart (networked) TV, then Sense probably used NDI to find it.

Interesting. I have been learning and incorporating smart devices for over a year. It is/was my interest in ‘Smart Home’ that encouraged me to incorporate Sense into my “HAL 2000” space ship…

They, obviously use the same home network (the same / only home network sense is using) and my NDI is enabled.
Of the few things Sense has identified for me, not one of my smart switches or smart plugs have been identified and I use most all of them everyday…

Don’t expect NDI to magically find every device conversing on your networks. AFAIK, there are only a few classes of devices that NDI detects and works with today.

  • Some brands / models of smart TVs - @MikeekiM is lucky. I have a 1 year old Sony OLED that doesn’t fall into this list.
  • Wemo and TP-Link power monitoring smartplugs
  • Hue hub and its estimates of bulb power utilization