"Device Not On/Off" Tag suggestions

#1

Hi,

I know you already have a tag for reporting a device that isn’t running; but I was wondering if it would be helpful to allow us to provide a bit more detail when reporting a device that hasn’t been properly detected.

Specifically, why not allow the users to identify when:

  • Sense incorrectly identified an “ON” event, i.e. the device is reported as ON, but it actually never turned on
  • Sense didn’t identify an “ON” event, i.e. the device turned ON, but sense didn’t detect it
  • Sense didn’t identify an “OFF” event, i.e. the device has been ON, and is now OFF, but Sense is still reporting it as “ON”.
  • Sense incorrectly identified an “OFF” event, i.e. the device is still ON, but sense thinks it has been turned OFF
3 Likes

How about a new button? This device IS on
How about a new button? This device IS on
#2

I can’t give too many specifics, but we’re looking into some similar functionality :+1:

Thanks for the feedback. This all seems quite useful for both us and you.

0 Likes

#3

Most of us have used the button for “this device is on”. Why
isn’t there one for the opposite?
If we had a button for “This device is not on” you would think it could help
nudge sense in the right direction.
Edit: I had on and not on reversed, sorry

3 Likes

#4

How are you supposed to have a button like that with no detected device to have it on?

0 Likes

#5

Simple, the device is detected and is in a running state but has been placed
into “other”. I was not talking about undetected devices at all.
count yourself lucky if you haven’t dealt with this problem yet.
Example: I was using the dryer earlier today and it showed up on the timeline
and the total but not tag for “dryer”, just a generic wattage tag.
Opened device page and that wattage was showing up in “other” even though
the dryer is a detected device and has previously reported just fine.

1 Like

#6

Because the timeline just shows wattage changes that it chooses are significant at the time, nothing that is the unit identifying a signature. Basically if you’re device is discovered already, it either missed it or needs more time to gain accuracy.

The power meter is ‘nice to know’ info, not identification events.

0 Likes

#7

I have to disagree about the timeline being “nice to know”. It
might be that way for us but sense records it and uses it in the
calculations for everything from current usage to device detection.
The dryer was showing up for a week solid on the timeline for each
time it was on or off. we did 4 loads today and it showed up once.
This has happened since sense detected a new device the other day
and called it heat 2 but at the same time it “combined” it with my oven.
It did so incorrectly and its nothing like a merge. You have no control
when it comes to combine and when I go to devices, oven there is no
heat 2 showing up with it anywhere.
so dryer doesn’t show when its turned on, oven does. But if the dryer and
oven are both on then I just get the notice for oven. Turn the oven off but
leave the dryer on and still shows oven on.
If say the dryer was on and I had a button to say “this device is on”
and I could open the oven page at the same time and use the existing “this
device is not on” then maybe these mix ups could be caught better and faster.
There is big value in the idea for those of us dealing with it.

Notice how it states oven from “oven and heat2 from oven”?
there was not a heat 2 until this happened because I had already had a heat 2
before and identified plus renamed it. This was the second heat 2 to come up, I’m
assuming because it detected it was a heat device and 2 was lowest number available

0 Likes

#8

The power meter we see isn’t what is detecting devices, it’s at best 1/2 second resolution. Sense operates at 1Mhz, 1 million times per second = the app power meter is ‘nice to know’ information.

0 Likes

#9

I realize the power meter is for viewing purposes but where are you
thinking the data that populates it comes from? It aggregated from the
data that uploaded constantly to the server from the monitor. We don’t get
to see in the web app or phone apps any data directly from the monitor. It’s
slower resolution on the determined speed the information is sent back to us.
Read my very first posted topic and it explains more as it was a big problem
for me at first that it required constant internet to function opposed to the
stated wifi. both are necessary.
The timeline and graph are not simply Nice to know that serve no other purpose.
the simplest piece of the entire system is our phone apps and the web app. Where the web
app is for viewing only and the phone is really only required for setup and then viewing.
You could install the app to install the sense and get it connected to the internet. You
could then uninstall the phone app and leave the monitor alone and it would still upload
all the data and e
detect devices.
I thin your under the impression that the monitor is sending these readings to the app, that
just isn’t happening the way I understand it.

0 Likes

#10

Trust me I’m well aware… Just trying to fill you in but it’s not going anywhere.

0 Likes

#11

Sorry, guess I’m completely misunderstanding what your trying
to get across to me. the topic was about sense mixing up devices
it previously detected and were identified but are now showing up
wrong I just thought if they had a button to say “this is on” and I could
use that then the opposite could be true with “this is off” and I wouldn’t
have two devices showing pas running or both showing running when
it was truly only one of them. i’m sure you have had your share of
aggravation and issues that sometimes seem like they defy logic and
would be an easy fix.
I apologize for misunderstanding. it seems like you were trying to say the
graph isn’t that important or reliable but to me it was a selling point to
have that feature knowing it’s not 100% accurate all of the time.

PM me or respond any ay you see fit f you want me to understand your point.
I’m not a bit embarrassed to admit my lack of knowledge here and want to
learn.

0 Likes

#12

The wattage is accurate, yes. The wattage tags that appear when there is a spike or dip are not always the actual wattage of the turn on or turn off signature at least in my findings and I believe @kevin1 has told you the same.

For example: My heat pump draws ~26000 watts on initial inrush, about 6200 watts once running at the beginning, but the wattage tag shows different every time, this last time it picked 7881 watts.

I’m not saying its not a possible issue with their tagging, I’m just saying its not a way that you can definitively know its a certain device and help Sense in that manor.

0 Likes

#13

Yes. I’m fully aware the spikes are just that, spikes for a larger draw for
starting. The actual wattage is shown after startup and fluctuates up and
down a little. My heat pump does the same and runs at 2600 but when it
starts its up around 5500.
I don’t pay any attention to the spikes.
I’m wanting to take a detected deice that used to show but now doesn’t and
tell sense the device is on.
Say my oven turns on, sense will show it on the timeline but devices won’t
show the oven is on. It appears in “other”.
If I could go to oven (remember, it’s listed) and tell it this device is on then
maybe sense will figure out it placed it wrong and it was the same oven it
had already detected.

0 Likes

#14

I think the original question has gotten lost in the minutia of all the possible places you can get info out of the app and which sections are accurate and which aren’t.

So to try to get back to the question / simply what I think Dan is asking for.
I will use I and My for the purpose of the discussion.

At some point in time the Sense has detected my POPCORN MAKER. So it is a known device to Sense and there is a detection model built for it.
It was detecting it well for some time.
Now it isn’t.
I run the POPCORN MAKER. Sense does not detect it. Sense does not turn on any device (so its not miscategorizing it where one could use “Device is Not on”.
I want to tap the device that Sense has defined, but shows is not on and chose “Device is On”

In turn doing something similar to what Device is Not on. Saying “Hey, process that detects, maybe go back and take a look again and see what you missed”

Dan, is that what you are talking about?

I certainly like the idea as a concept. I know the one issue I see with it is a usable timestamp.
When you report Device Not On, regardless of where in the cycle you clicked that button, it knows exactly when it detected that device turning on, so it knows exactly where to go in the history to look at that signature again to see how it made the mistake.
With a Device Is Onn - The system won’t know where to go look to see where it missed that power on signature. It could have missed it 2 minutes ago or two hours ago. While I’m sure they could build in some “its been on for XX time buttons to choose from” ultimately now you are relying on the human to get the time right. And even so, the precision is missing. At the time scale that Sense is analyzing data, being off by 10 seconds could make the different in it realizing its mistake and not.

I’m not against the idea. I’m mostly conjecturing the above based on the last couple years of reading these forums and some Sense support tickets. Of course it is possible that Sense can do something like this, or they can’t, but it has nothing to do with the reason I gave.

0 Likes

#15

Your spot on with what I was trying to communicate and I
greatly appreciate you providing a much better explanation.
Thank You

I understand what you see with the timestamp. But, sense
would see the use happening at the timestamp of the report
of “this device is on” and know the wattage to look for. Whether
sense could figure out when it was turned on to make a correlation
is dependent on factors in there software and data we aren’t privy to.
I would think that because you clicked on the popcorn maker
and sense knew in the past what it was and operated at 200 watts,
sense could see a device currently running a that wattage but it placed it
into “other”, that sense could possibly figure it out on its own by knowing
the timestamp of when it was stuck in “other”.
I guess my wish is bigger than I realized, I didn’t even think of this until
you brought it to my attention.

0 Likes

#16

First the dryer being picked up as oven and a new one today.
the fridge and freezer were both detected and both reliably
picked up. Today the freezer was off and the fridge was on.
What did it pick up? The fridge.
Also. the heat pump was reliable until today. It now shows in other.

0 Likes

#17

That sounds like correct operation for the fridge… Fridge is on, freezer off, Sense detects (picks up) fridge. Am I missing something ?

1 Like

#18

My fridge and freezer in the kitchen use the same compressor
fan to cool the compressor, same inside fan motor. What it’s
doing is confusing the kitchen refrigerator with the freezer
in the garage.

There are 12 devices that draw separate current in the refrigerator and
I’m 100% sure that the detection is the compressor/fan combination. I’m sure it will find the other components in time.
The chest freezer has only the compressor.

I’ve got notification set where I get bombarded with on and off alerts.
I go and check these many, many times before I’m confident about
the detection. so I know both of these were correct.
CORRECTION:
I stated sense ha only detected the compressor/fan combination with the
fridge. It detected and name the “ice maker”. I changed the name. which I
do with everything, until I’m 100% confident. Usually just change it with 3
question marks added to the end because sense won’t auto name things we
change the name on (supposed to but that is another issue).

0 Likes

#19

All these detection I have had are very quickly falling apart. I had so
many good detections that were identified and reporting each and
every cycle but now they don’t.
So, a few days ago I put in the ne water heater (same brand, model and wired
identical as previous). I lost water heater detection right away. Still had
water heater in device list but it was associated with the old so I deleted it.
Two days passed and it detected the new one and its been reliable. But one
by one, my other devices have gone haywire. Dryer shows on when actually
the oven is on. The dryer doesn’t report at all now. What was reporting pretty
well was stovetop is showing it on when the oven is on and when the stove s
on nothing reports.
So basically I have 3 devices (oven, Dryer, Stovetop) that report when the oven
is on. There is only 1 device showing when it is on they don’t come up at the
same time. Also the fridge now reports as the freezer and the freezer doesn’t
report at all.
This means I have lost 5 detections in one day

  1. oven
    2 stove
    3.fridge
  2. freezer
  3. dryer

I would have thought this problem would have happened at the time of
replacing the water heater if it had something to do with it but it was days
later.
I replied to a post earlier bragging on the monitor but I regret that now.
What do I need to do now? start deleting and start over? Is this the
kind of experience others have had?
I reported the problem but I’m still waiting on responses from the past, I
won’t hold my breath. I wonder if these are things they can fix if caught quick
enough, like the same or next day. But because of the length of time it takes
them to respond it goes too long and can’t be reversed.
I applaud those of you that have been with this sometimes for years if you have
been experiencing these problems. I won’t make it very long.
Trying to be patient but it’s hard when I can’t get answers from Sense and have to
rely on other users for answers.
I’ve been helped along by the community and the tremendous amount of knowledge
and experience and had more “support” from Ryan@Sense than the tech team.
I’m just not a patient person. I want to see this succeed and believe it can, it’s
terrific when it’s working as it should. It’s a shame they are still so small a
company.
Sorry, just bummed out tonight

0 Likes

#20

I think you just need to sit back and give everything time. I know you are bummed. Trust me, I get it.

When I first got my sense, I was excited about it as well. Running around the house trying to track things down. Labeling. Questioning every move it made. But 2.5 years later and having had my own experiences and watching many others here on the forums - time is your friend.

You have had amazing detection in your first 2 weeks. But now just let things settle for a while. If a new device pops up, great! Leave it be unless you really know what it is. Use the “is a guess” toggle on a label if you aren’t sure.

Changing your water heater may have changed things in your home. I know you say it is wired the exact same way, but wired the same way to your eyes and wired the same way in life may not match. The factory could have used a different batch of heating elements. Sure it is a 3500w heating element, but that batch actually pulls 3450w, or there is a bad solder on a circuit board causing a tiny bit more resistance, there for changing the way Sense is able to detect it. Who knows.

In short, who knows what is going on, but I think you need to stop taking every initial detection as a final “its got it its perfect” and every missed detection as “its stopped working, the sky is falling”.

If a device truly stops getting detected for several weeks and no more triggers. Then maybe it is time to write support, or delete the device and give Sense a chance to find it anew. But you need to give it time.

I know you are disappointed with Sense’s support response. Ryan has given some indication about why they can take time to respond. There is a lot to look at in a support ticket and I doubt all the CS reps are trained to the level some of your requests require. I know there are people out there who think that Sense shouldn’t be selling this product if they can’t support it in the way that people think they should be able to. My generic response to get in touch with your ISP’s support and see how that goes. Or your Bank for that matter. Many of these multi-million dollar companies don’t offer 24 hour support, or at least not support that can actually help you. Heck, try getting in touch with Google about a Gmail issue.

I hope you know I"m not picking on your or attacking you, but so many of your posts are always at the extreme of “it works perfect its great and amazing”, or it isn’t exactly as you expect it to be therefore it is terrible.

As to what you can expect in the future - Every user here has a different experience.
We all have our own expectations of what we want the device to do.
We all have different living residences with different electrical properties and appliance combinations.
So I don’t think there is an easy answer as to what you can expect at your home.
The only thing I can say is that currently, as of today, I would not expect your Sense to accurately detect all the devices in your home all the time. I would expect it to detect some things, but not others. I expect that to change next week when its not colder than Mars and your heat strips aren’t running all day long.
I expect in the summer time your detection to change because your AC units (if you have them) will introduce a whole new world of “noise” into your house.

If you are happy enough with the unit, keep it and get from it what you can.
If all this irregularity is going to drive you a bit nutty, pull the plug and return it. I’m sort of assuming you are still in the 30 day return window (and they have been good about extending that in some cases if you are out).

I agree, it is a shame they don’t have the resources to get Sense to the product we all wish and know it can be. I’m sure they wish they had the resources to pour into development and customer service to make it continue to get better, but I believe they are doing what they can.

So try to take a break from the Sense for a couple days and let it do its thing.

There’s better things to be bummed about, such as being a Rams fan on Sunday. :football: [I joke, I joke]

5 Likes