Track Use by Phase


#41

Some places penalize you for how unbalanced you are. It’s healthy to have it balanced.

Back to topic.

Hmmm, I was thinking about this request. What if they just made each phase a special optional “device”. That way you could look at the stats of each phase exactly as you do any device. Except it would always be “on”. Maybe only accessed by clicking on the watts for each phase to keep things clean.


#42

You can see each leg of power in app now.
Settings-my home-sense monitor

The way panels are made it’s impossible to be out of balance by more than 20 amp on 120.
You could put every breaker on one side of the panel and have the exact same balance as having them on both sides


#43

Your not balancing the circuit breaker AMP ratings. Your trying to balance the actual real-time LOAD. Which could be unbalanced by any amount. Like if you have a Frig and a Freezer you might want to put those on separate phases. And those respective breakers could be on the same side or opposite and still land on the same phase.

What is currently displayed is watts in realtime on each phase. Which is useful and nice. But it would be nice to have some measure of accrued kWh over various periods on each phase. Just like you get with an individual device.

I personally arrange my breakers based on a generator that only back feeds one phase. So the furnace, fridge and hot water (gas tankless) are on the generator phase.


#44

For someone in your situation it’s much different than a normal setup. You are having to make an effort (a complicated one) to ha e your loads come out that way. For most of us, just filling the panel bals the load.
I haven’t seen anyone else request this feature but I see where having it would be useful.
Might be a good idea to place it in the “product wishlist” sub.


#45

You might want to look a little closer at the opening post, as it has 87 likes. Sense agreed that it’s a good thought and there are links to half a dozen threads of similar requests.

You could argue most people don’t need the extra detail Sense provides either to manage their power either. But most of us crave “statistical” information to make better choices. Having a kWh plot of each phase could be helpful information for lots of things. It could even help track down a power wasting device that Sense cannot seem isolate.

Also keep in mind that Sense devices have a lot of guessing in their kWh usage. Like for example my Fridge. It figured out the compressor half, but it has not figured out the defrost cycles (which is almost as much as the compressor per day).

Your total kWh per phase would be very accurate.

Load balancing is generally a good thing and I would prefer not have to stare at my phone to check it. A simple plot would help you determine if you have some odd imbalance that causes unnecessary stress on the system. Things like to be balanced. Like what was mentioned it helps keep voltage even more constant. Probably less stress on a Solar inverter etc.

The electrician can’t predict what you will plug in where.


#46

I did go back and look and the original post has 28 likes showing from my view which is quite a few. That indicates many people wanting the feature. The first post only mentions the “now” view. What I was understanding of your suggestion is much more than that and will provide history also. I like that much more than just now.
The electrician not being able to predict wher you plug something in is true but the design of panels takes this into account. I have heard this argument about “load balancing” between legs may times over the years but have yet to see it actually happen. I would have to make an effort to use mine out of balance by trying to isolate every other 120 circuit on each side of the panel. The only time mine is off balance now is when I run a space heater and that is only 1500 watts.
Most of my appliances are like yours and only one component has been detected. So that doesn’t give me a very clear picture as to how much energy it consumes in total. It has helped me see how much time something uses.
I’m sure your correct about solar and inverter. Solar is something I’m not familiar with and have been trying to learn about on this forum. With the low cost of my electricity (.085 KWH) and my location the ROI doesn’t work out.
Sense is impressively accurate on total KWH use as seen by screenshot s my bill.


#47

@samwooly1,

I’m not sure what you mean by filing the panel balances the load. There is nothing special between left and right side of the circuit breaker panel (your typical 240v split phase). The different phases are on adjacent breakers (i.e. even breakers are on phase 1, odd are on phase 2). Your panel can become unbalanced if you power devices on one phase.


#48

It’s possible to unbalance like your saying but every other slot one on the left side of the panel actually draws from the right and likewise with every other on the right drawing from the left.
It would be against odds to have it be out of balance in a big way. If someone did see that happening then moving a couple breakers by swapping legs would easily remedy the situation. Take 2 120 breakers next to each other on the same side and switch places.
I’m just saying I’ve heard this argument over and over but never actually seen it happen.


#49

It’s available information that most people know Sense already has (other whole house monitors also offer it). I agree most are gonna perfectly fine. A “gross balance” can also be done without sense telling you. But it sure would be easy to see if there is some abnormality you had not considered (or perhaps even a fault) and be available to fine tune their for folks with OCD.

Of course Sense is accurate for TOTAL kWh, it better be. It would be just as accurate for the total of each phase. Try putting a Kill-O-Watt meter on your fridge and compare that to what Sense says. Right now Sense is off by 50% (it’s not factoring in the defrost cycle or it’s always on load). It may eventually improve. But some devices are gonna be way to complex to ever figure out (Variable speed AC compressor, Variable Speed HVAC Fan, Variable Speed Pool pump and soon to be Variable speed Fridge compressor). Which is why I’d like one more step of accurate detail by seeing plots of each phase. As a general purpose informational tool (just like what Sense is). I figured out a lot with one total kWh trace. It would have been easier with one trace for each phase.

Correct, at $0.085 kWh it would be very hard to justify Solar (based on economy alone). But I’d do it now, even if it was break even ROI over 20 years. My rate is $0.25 kWh and the ROI is 6-7 years. After that I make $$$ for 3-4 years (via SRECs) :wink:

Wow, that is really high kWh usage, I hope that include two EV’s or something. I use 6000 kWh a year (that was before my recent EV which I expect will add ~4000 kWh a year). My always on is 136 watts. I think you need to get to work.


#50

Why do you continue to try and talk folks out of this.

You are talking about Balancing the MAX load of the panel. And assuming every breaker is pulling the same load with respect to the breaker rating.

Folks want to balance their DYNAMIC load.

The BULK of their load might be on 2 breakers on the same phase. They might have several bulky loads accidently on the same phase. REGARDLESS of what side of the panel they are on.


#51

We use a lot of electricity unfortunately. No EV’s and a typical family of four in a small 1600 foot all electric house. My wife grew up in Air Force base housing so teaching conservation has been a challenge the last 25 years. The kids follow what mom does and wouldn’t you know, I pay the bills. My biggest electric hog this winter is when the heat strips come on below 20 degrees. My heat pump uses around 5,000 watts and the strips 15 KW. That’s 20,000 watts right there and physically hurts to see in the sense app.
My purchase of sense was based on finding where we can make behavior changes to save some money. I do have a couple devices that are creature comforts that I know cost me money like a heated tile floor and hot water recirculation. I ha e determined that the hot water is pretty minor and offset by the reduced use of water by up to 1,000 gallons a month but the floor heater isn’t detected. Theat floor heater is on my wishlist. I’d love to know what it costs me to keep the wife’s bathroom floor at 92-95 degrees all the time.

I think what you all propose is a great idea. I’m just now getting into looking at things statistically and a deeper analysis. I also deal with OCD but it hasn’t yet hit me where data with sense is concerned. We don’t get to choose where it drives our focus


#52

I apologize, I’m not trying to talk anyone out of anything. Those of you that are oaying attention to the finest details would get use from it.
I just didn’t want the average user to thinknthey now needed to be concerned by “balancing” when it’s not something that would be a concern for most people.


#53

Agreed. The average user doesn’t need it. Nothing from Sense has to even suggest anything with regard to balancing. Just share the info and it could be fairly buried in the UI so as not to confuse or intimidate the average user.


#54

How about some heated slippers for the wifey.


#55

Your not the first to make that suggestion. You’ve heard the old “happy wife, happy life”? There is at least some truth to that.
The bathroom remodel and especially the floor was a birthday present last year. I clearly wasn’t thinking about how long I’d be paying for it. Kind of feels like I maxed out a high limit credit card and I’ll be making the minimum payment for life.