Bubbles add up to more than total use


#1

So for months now, since my replacement Sense monitor, I’ve been experiencing a challenge of not only multiple detected devices reporting more than actual usage (HVAC specifically) but also false detections of devices turning on when reality is its a yet unidentified device in “other” that is active.

The oddity for both of the above situations is the sum of active bubbles adds up to greater than the total power consumption at that moment. Yet Sense just rolls with it and doesn’t correct itself. I’ve reported device not on. I’ve deleted incorrect or confused devices. And they simply re-detect with the same inaccurate reporting.

The thing that baffles me the most is how Sense can just roll on for months with detected devices reporting more than total use and not adjust itself.

Does anyone else experience this behavior?


#2

Dear @AZAaron.
I’ll get back to you when I don’t have 6 fluctuating bubbles to chase. It’s hard to add-up 4digit numbers in my head.
Your BFF,
MachoDrone

P.S. I think it may have something to do with the Always On bubble that’s rather a static number that’s updated occasionally. It’s not as dynamic of a figure. The 3,953W number is real-time.


#3


Good Morning, Mr. @AZAaron. I’m back. Providing the bubbles fluctuates as I inspect each bubble’s power, I don’t have the issue you describe, as calculated.
Perhaps imma not understanding the problem? Can you provide pictures?


#4

Thanks @MachoDrone for taking the time :blush:

You’re definitely understanding but in your example at least, you’re not experiencing the same thing. I’m getting bubbles that add up to at times over a thousand watts or more above total usage and Sense doesn’t adjust them.

I’ll try to post screen shots today myself.


#5

So here’s an example. With these screen shots, my undetected TV, two celing fans, a 210w light, and my washer are all on and should be in “Other” as they have yet not been detected. My pool pump is not on.


Just the larger bubbles (not counting the small hue lights) add up to 5574. It’ll run like this til I report my pool pump not on, then I get just a little of my other back but not equal to the amount of the pool pump.

So what I don’t get is why sense can’t automatically determine thing are wrong with such a simple mathematical discrepancy.


#6

My HVAC is the worst. When both units are running, combined, they report in the area of 2000 watts too high. “other” dissappears and numbers are crazy!


#7

In this exact situation I shared. I think my washer running falsely triggered the pool pump device but AC is on in reality but using about 700 watts less than reported. Been doing that all summer without correcting and I’ve even deleted it for re-detection.


#8

Here’s a before and after of both ac units running. The over report of the devices is greater than 1500 watts…

Before:

During:


#9

@AZAron,
I’m seeing something similar, though I have an added complication. I have two AC condenser units, but Sense started seeing a third, AC 3, back in April, after a number of months of getting things fairly right between my two AC condensers between Sept 17 and April 18.

What has happened over time, is that:

  • Sense created a new device AC 3, that gradually took over AC Down, in identifications of my downstairs AC condensor
  • Sense AC Down started stealing identifications of my upstairs AC condenser formerly know as AC Up
  • AC Up began associating with some other lower wattage device (500W instead of 3.5kW) that probably had a somewhat similar signature. It often doesn’t turn off, until Sense hits the time out period or I tell Sense that “Device is Not On”

When the AC Up bubble is up, I get the “bubbles greater than total usage” situation. The bubble suggests that the power is 3.5kW or so, but the data from data export suggests that it is closer to 500W. Will share some data on this soon. Points to the beauty of having Sense share data with smart thermostats like Ecobee or Nest - a little supervised learning is likely to help.


#10

@kevin1 this appears to be very similar to my issue here https://community.sense.com/t/insight-on-this/3321?u=mrtimo with inter-device theft by Sense.


#11

@kevin1 are you saying that even though you witness a high reporting bubble, that exporting the data of that time frame reflects lower values and greater accuracy?

I mean aside from your whole AC situation that’s odd in itself.

I did have more accurate AC devices earlier in the year but that was also after some open support issues with Sense. My monitor was replaced under warranty in June and since that, my new monitor seems to be reporting a lot of devices high. Some from the start, and others gradually morph high.

My main fridge is the worst and ironically, it was dead on accurate with my previous sense. This one just can’t seem to get it right. It’s a variable draw fridge that starts around 200 and declines to around 160 before shutting off. This new monitor keeps trying to report it as a steady, flat usage. On first detection it reported a flat usage of 210. Then every couple of weeks, the device drops a couple watts like its trying to adjust but still robs flat and loses the last 10 minutes or so of runtime.

I guess my biggest personal confusion is why isn’t sense killing a device or adjusting it when total usage is obviously less than the sum of the parts. It doesn’t seem to care unless I manually intervene.


#12

@AZAaron,
Maybe not as odd as you think (or as I thought). I went to set an alert to double check the value I see in the AC Up bubble and realized that there is a fourth device in my story line. AC Up was originally just AC Up, but at one point in time, Sense started seeing a very short but high spike, which I named AC Spike originally correlated with the startup of my downstairs AC, but eventually correlated, and remerged with my AC Up device. I’m going to have to go back and redo my analysis with AC Up unmerged - hopefully Sense export keeps the whole time history of individual merged elements.

So going back to the bubbles, I’m going to need to look closely at bubble vs. export behavior. It’s very tough to check since export is on an hourly basis and the bubble represents an average for a second or so. But a bubble is a really snapshot of power over a few seconds in time, while export is an energy integral over time - so they can be very different in the long run.

BTW - I just caught a snapshot of Sense detecting both AC Up and AC Down when only the upstairs was on. bubbles added up to more than the total. More later.


#13

You can detect periods of devices adding up to more than the total by processing the download data.

Then go the the Devices page and display Other for particularly egregious hours. If you hover over the bar it will display a negative value. Take screenshot and send to support. They really want to see screenshots as anything else could be customer errors.

I’ve been reporting this to them since May. They keep thinking they have it repaired and say they don’t see it any more. But it keeps happening.


#14

I’ve posted about this issue a few times. I haven’t looked at the app in a while, so I don’t know if I am still having the issue.