Square D Wiser Energy Monitor & Sense (same?)

#1

ok, a bit of background first… since getting solar installed (a month before my sense, 3rd month now), my utility company has loused up each and every bill (2 so far)… the 1st one was 38 bill days and they had to generate estimates for 3 days, because of a “data” issue… the 2nd one was 34 days, and I’ve got about 10 days of estimated use and nearly a week now of no data… even going to the “green button” download from utility, they don’t have data… just notes all over their website saying they are having problems… now, I’ve been a customer of this utility for 6~7 years at 2 addresses, never had a problem like this… perfect record, until I got my PTO for solar… since the PTO, I go weeks without knowing what the utility sees… days of issues with website and lack of data… and frankly, the “estimates” they’re doing are pissing me off…

so, I was looking into getting a Rainforest Eagle-200, to verify data directly from the meter so I can dispute reading with the utility (since I don’t have any other “utility-grade” metering)… I’m sure others here have like concerns… anyway, once I find a device, I start searching for the competition, so I can make sure I’m getting the most for my buck… that led me to a discovery…

the Square D Wiser Energy Monitor… now some of us know Square D as a Schneider Electric brand of power boxes and just about anything to do with energy distribution… there is a “Wiser Energy Management System” that can be used to monitor and even control energy distribution within a building… and they have a Wiser Energy Monitor https://www.schneider-electric.us/en/product-range/65898-wiser-energy/?parent-category-id=54600&parent-subcategory-id=54610&filter=business-5-residential-and-small-business … so someone correct me if I’m wrong, but this device is the same size & shape as Sense, and even has the same logo embossed on its case… now, this device doesn’t have the same capabilities as the Sense Monitor (guess)… but do we have the same capabilities as it?

meaning, if I wanted to buy Wiser gateway, like the Wiser Internet Gateway - EER21100 (https://www.schneider-electric.us/en/product/EER21100/wiser-gateway/), which is discontinued, but there are some still floating around… and use that to dump my meter data to the Wiser Management system (that still has a legacy website if needed for discontinued products) (https://www.schneider-electric.us/en/work/products/explore/wiser-energy/homeowners/), that would/should give me access to my raw smart meter data through the Wise website…

so here is where my thoughts get really cool… will this wiser gateway talk with my Sense? or is there a way to get Sense to talk with the Wiser website/app, since Sense and the Wiser Monitor appear to be the same thing? are we seeing some future connection here?

has anyone else seen/research this? anyone from Sense care to comment on this?

I’m just barely touching the surface here… I haven’t read enough about the Wiser system… but I’d really like to know how this relates to Sense…

#2

any for those that want to know about the gateway… it takes the Zigbee protocol from the smart meter and sends it across the internet for the Wise website… it gives a personal link to your smart meter data, they say is just the same as what your utility sees from your meter… exact copy…

this brings up another thought… if the smart meter is zigbee… and my alarm/automation system has zigbee and sense is bringing more wifi interference to my meter… that makes me wonder if the excess zigbee connection is going to cause problems…

that gets me thinking about my recent issue with roku remotes… remotes keep loosing connection to the rokus… makes me wonder if I’m getting the issues because of the zigbee temp sensors I’ve been adding to my home automation… mmmmmm…

crap, more to research… any input appreciated…

#3

https://community.sense.com/t/series-b-funding-announcement-10-2018/3598

Hefty round of investments here for some reason…? Schneider Electric as one of the top names makes it interesting.

#4

ah, I didn’t catch that the first time around… I read that announcement before… missed it… there is a connection there somewhere… thx…

#5

Nice catch ! Looks like Schneider/Square D is OEMing Sense, with some new colored skins, possibly as part of the series B, or some parallel revenue deal. I’m betting the SW is the same today though Square D may eventually integrate into their own infrastructure. Probably really only sold via the installer/electrician channel.

LMK if you want more info on the Eagle Rainforest, though I have a 100, not a 200. They are functionally similar.

BTW - The Wiser Internet Gateway - EER21100 looks exactly like the box SolarCityTesla uses to connect Zigbee data from the inverter to the internet.

#6

@kevin1 if I read the Rainforest Eagles correctly, the Eagle-200 is just a gateway… grabs data from the meter and sends it to one of a few websites setup to allow homeowners to monitor from the meter data… since the data is the same from the meter, this just gives me my own copy of it… if/when internet is down, there is no data, and it doesn’t have cache or memory to store/backfill at a later time…

as it stands right now, I’m pulling up my solar data & utility data daily (attempting to anyway) and recording in an excel spreadsheet… I’m just looking to automate this…

the EER21100 Wiser gateway is basically the same thing… I found that its based on an iDigit hardware gateway from 2012~2013 tech… I assume the Eagle-200 being newer/better for that role…

so that brings up more curiosities… the Eagle-200 has zigbee… my smart meter has zigbee… my SunPower PV system monitor/supervisor (as they call it) has zigbee in it as well… so if I had a zigbee gateway for my smart meter, will it find my solar meter also and meet my goal of automating my daily totals… that’s the other piece I’m trying to figure out…

#7

The Rainforest Eagle 100 (and 200) is a combination Zigbee bridge to Ethernet/IP, plus it’s own local Apache webserver, so data from your meter is served up locally as wells as transported to select other cloud services, including Rainforest’s own. So you can view/download the data from the local Eagle or via the cloud. But the local service has limits of the local hardware box - data download is limited by local hardware memory.

BTW - I have 4 diiferent Zigbee to Ethernet /IP bridges in my House, but they are all end-use specific on the Zigbee end (SolarCity, Eagle, Hue, Keen Vents). None are interoperable today, though I might be able to buy a Zigbee hub that talks to most of them.

#8

There’s a bit more info here:
http://static.schneider-electric.us/assets/1-press-release-temp/Wiser-Energy-Management-13Nov2018.pdf

In short, they’re the same product. Both the Sense home energy monitor and the Wiser energy monitor run the Sense app. On the Wiser energy monitor, there is a Square-D edition of Sense which contains all the core Sense functionality and will include specific functionality for the Wiser energy platform over time.

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Wiser Energy Monitor!?
#9

thx @RyanAtSense … good info… so Square D is playing catch up with those of us that have Sense… I know they are pushing integrations with their entire line of Wiser products… but I think they chose the better product of those out there in energy monitoring & controls… makes me feel better about the future of Sense as well… in my opinion, that moved you guys out of the “startup” category and into the living brands… good… real good…

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